Are Infants Really Born Sinless?

[Apocrypha]

Theres no such thing as a original sin nature that automatically damns folks. Thats from Saint Augustine, not the scriptures.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Apocrypha

Theres no such thing as a original sin nature that automatically damns folks. Thats from Saint Augustine, not the scriptures.

correct

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Apocrypha

Theres no such thing as a original sin nature that automatically damns folks. Thats from Saint Augustine, not the scriptures.

this is what happeneds when people jumps into the conversation, and doesnt read anything. except the last page.

no one is talking about being born already guilty of sin.

we have been defending that babies are born sinless the whole time dude.
but babies just like us, have a sinful nature, meaning when they grow they will sin. so the only one who was condeming babies was jacobs ladder. again people need to start from the basis of the conversation

were not going any further than that.

[LUKE2447]

"Your hands have made me and fashioned me" (Psalm 119:73)

Psalms 58:3
These wicked people are born sinners; even from birth they have lied and gone their own way.

Psa 58:3 The wicked turn aside from birth
liars go astray as soon as they are born.1

Look at the context. He is speaking with a certain type of language and slant to specific people. Train up a child in the way they should go. He is speaking of a specific people those who are wicked not EVERYONE. It is not about ALL MEN! From birth wicked people are brought to a place in which they are fed unrighteousness.


"Your hands have made me and fashioned me" (Psalm 119:73)

"Know that the LORD, He is God; It is He who has made us, and not we ourselves;" (Psalm 100:3).

God makes us after that from birth we are fashioned some wicked some not.

Please describe David's comment of "people are born sinners."

"Truly, this only I have found: That God made man upright, but they have sought out many schemes." (Ecclesiastes 7:29)

So God made us born sinners? Using David meaning to overule the general understanding of mans constitution from the beginning is flawed. David is using a type of language to relay meaning not be self contradictive.




David states in Psalms 51:5, "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me."

uh nice translation witha theological presentment vs translation.

Psa 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity; And in sin did my mother conceive me.

Behold "I" was brought forth in iniquity. As all we are brought forth under the provision given to us by Adams sin. Thus he is brought forth from conception to birth under the natural laws resultant of Adam. In pain was he brought forth to his mother as a result as well. The second passage has nothing even remotely close to do with his nature but the actions or reality of his mother. It also is related to the condition in which he was conceived under the provision of Adams sin and natural law of conception. All of our envrioment in which we deal is in fallen enviroment. He was not conceived alien to the enviroment which man had been cursed with. JEsus was. Thus the whole of the context is about curse of Eve and Adam from a point of view of under what conditions was his existance in relations to the reality of his mothers. Nothing in here about a sinful nature but how he came to exist and under what enviroment which is curse related condition.

I was born under the conditions of sin(Adam's curse) from birth, because under those conditions my mother conceived me.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

"Your hands have made me and fashioned me" (Psalm 119:73)

Psalms 58:3
These wicked people are born sinners; even from birth they have lied and gone their own way.

Psa 58:3 The wicked turn aside from birth
liars go astray as soon as they are born.1

Look at the context. He is speaking with a certain type of language and slant to specific people. Train up a child in the way they should go. He is speaking of a specific people those who are wicked not EVERYONE. It is not about ALL MEN! From birth wicked people are brought to a place in which they are fed unrighteousness.


"Your hands have made me and fashioned me" (Psalm 119:73)

"Know that the LORD, He is God; It is He who has made us, and not we ourselves;" (Psalm 100:3).

God makes us after that from birth we are fashioned some wicked some not.



"Truly, this only I have found: That God made man upright, but they have sought out many schemes." (Ecclesiastes 7:29)

So God made us born sinners? Using David meaning to overule the general understanding of mans constitution from the beginning is flawed. David is using a type of language to relay meaning not be self contradictive.




David states in Psalms 51:5, "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me."

uh nice translation witha theological presentment vs translation.

Psa 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity; And in sin did my mother conceive me.

Behold "I" was brought forth in iniquity. As all we are brought forth under the provision given to us by Adams sin. Thus he is brought forth from conception to birth under the natural laws resultant of Adam. In pain was he brought forth to his mother as a result as well. The second passage has nothing even remotely close to do with his nature but the actions or reality of his mother. It also is related to the condition in which he was conceived under the provision of Adams sin and natural law of conception. All of our envrioment in which we deal is in fallen enviroment. He was not conceived alien to the enviroment which man had been cursed with. JEsus was. Thus the whole of the context is about curse of Eve and Adam from a point of view of under what conditions was his existance in relations to the reality of his mothers. Nothing in here about a sinful nature but how he came to exist and under what enviroment which is curse related condition.

I was born under the conditions of sin(Adam's curse) from birth, because under those conditions my mother conceived me.

So God made some people wicked?

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Timmy

So God made some people wicked?

no... you missing what is said. God made all men up right. Man after that makes himself in part due to varying conditions and influences.

[acerrak]

who is the wicked verses the rightous luke? whats the difference? concerning babies?

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by acerrak

who is the wicked verses the rightous luke? whats the difference? concerning babies?

? So babies are wicked when born? Yet God made them upright? PICK! I have direct context of nature. You have verses dealing with enviromental conditions of a curse that says nothing about "nature."

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

? So babies are wicked when born? Yet God made them upright? PICK! I have direct context of nature. You have verses dealing with enviromental conditions of a curse that says nothing about "nature."

no i was tring to get a responce from you.

There is no difference in any baby. both the the children of the wicked and the children of the rightous will grow up and sin, because of there nature.

That is what i am saying. a baby is blameless but its nature will cause it to sin. Even in a rightous house hold, that child will eventually sin.

infact mankind cant stop it, that is Why Christ Came, To be a sacrifice a stand in for our sins.

Even babies that grow up in God fearing Homes today at some point in time will rebel and appease their flesh.

So a baby is innocent but because of its(ours) Sinful nature that baby will eventually will grow and commit sin.

[Austin]

One commandment!!! Could not even keep one commandment! If they did or did not have a sinful nature then what in truth was wrong with them that they could not even keep one simple easy commandment.

Do you possibly think that maybe Satan knew something that we can't seem to resolved? Maybe he saw something in them that we don't see! You think.

Come on, just one commandment, I could do that one when I was lost in the world and never thought about God. If he would have appeared to me in that way it would have been enough to keep me not only away from that tree , but after seeing him I probably would have, just to have stayed on his good side, stayed away from all the trees, if fact I would not have even gone into the forest in the first place.

One, just one simple rule and they couldn't even do that. Something was way far wrong in them somewhere.. May be they were mentally challenged or was having a bad day after tending the garden. They could have had a lovers quarrel. Maybe it was one of those days when Adam was to manly and bossy and Eve didn't like it so she just was under some post stress thing

There has to be a logical reason behind it as we see it today. With all the knowledge we have in understanding the human nature of people there had to be something they had experienced to make them do that. Maybe! they weren't perfect in some way like we aren't perfect in some ways.

I wonder in what way are we not perfect? Maybe we just can't resist sin because it's too tempting. Maybe they didn't take God serious because after all, he was around from the beginning and was common for them to see him. Maybe they took him for granted and really didn't believe that he meant what he said. If they didn't have a sinful nature in the spiritual ream then what was it in the natural ream.

Maybe that what's really wrong with the church today that is powerless. They are operating in the natural ream and not in the spiritual ream. Maybe it's because they don't think there is any need to change the spiritual ream of themselves, just get the word in their mind and believe on it and things will all come together.

After all, all we have to do is sit back and let God take care of everything, because he is in control and their is no responsibility toward us to do anything except enjoy.