Apostolic Theologians

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

mtd, I checked out these 2 websites. What do you find outstanding by Dave Huston? Is plural eldership his main contribution or are there other teachings that are good? Is he independent? Does he think he can influence upc church structure? Do you think pastors are going to give up authority to elders?

What stands out to me in Daves teaching is that he teaches the true foundation doctrines of Christ. Not just Acts 2:38. He teaches obviously the multiple Eldership found in scripture. He teaches and is putting into practice the exhortations to the Churches to love one another by promoting and encouraging the Saints to meet regularly for fellowship not just Church meetings.

He teaches those solid rock Biblical foundations of the post tribulation rapture, the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment with accuracy that is not present in most Apostolic Churches.

So in short he may not have qualifications that men consider essential to be called a "Theologian" he teaches the full gospel foundations in truth. That cannot be said for many at all in our movement or anywhere else at this time.

I believe God is using him to influence lives of men and women who love truth. Whether he can influence many among the UPC remains to be seen. They seem like a hard group to move!

To get a wider view of his beliefs go to this link:

http://www.gloriouschurch.com/

At the top of the page is Questions And Answers. Many topics are briefly touched on there.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

Are there any notable apostolic theologians outside of dkb? Does this concern anyone? Does anyone know of a website that lays out the apostolic view on all theological issues. I'm aware of jason dulle's page. any others?

You are aware of "Dulles page"? Are you aware of Institute for Biblical Studies? That includes Dulle, but has others listed too.

http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/author.htm

[kingdomapostle]

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

Bro. where I go for a lot of apologetics. The Pentecostal Assemblies of the World used to have a lot of outstanding teachers, writings, and books out on the Apostolic Doctrine. There's a lack now in "theologians" in the organization. For reasons I'm pretty sure I can articulate, but I won't, just to keep this conversation on track.

Bro. Sam Smith is a good teacher and preacher.

I agree. We need to write more.

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

You are aware of "Dulles page"? Are you aware of Institute for Biblical Studies? That includes Dulle, but has others listed too.

http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/author.htm

thanks hoovie. I wasn't aware of these other authors.

[trialedbyfire]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

please tell me why there are no theologians in the apostolic church. I have no idea.

I can't speak for the whole of the Apostolic Church. I can just speak to what I've seen being in the holiness movement for just the last decade. Our fathers used to have a sincere love for the Word of God (I can say this especially for the P.A.W.). A serious desire to learn, not necessarily on a PhD level, but they LOVED the word. That's why Bishop Tyson in Indiana (who just recently passed) was so revered in our organization. GT Haywood, E.W. Doak, Paul Bowers, Norman Wagner, RC Lawson, these brothers from what I've heard LOVED the Word of God and LOVED the Apostolic Doctrine. You talk about contending for the faith... these people LIVED that. There are still some out there that want to labor. In some of our churches though (and granted I'll say that from my experience this isn't just an OP issue) there are some people that tend to love their "titles" and "positions" and the perks that it gets them, moreso then they love the word. So we as a movement have been in the same place for a while, can't seem to move forward, because SOME not all of the laborers (in the word) are in it for themselves and not the word of God.

But that's just the game now, evangelical churches all over the religious spectrum from Baptist to Pentecostal are becoming "hollywoodized". Preachers aren't expected to pray, read, fast and really labor in the word. They are rock stars, celebrities, pep-ralley leaders, and inspirational speakers. People don't want deep and thorough (so we're told) they want quick, exciting, microwavebly fast, and complete with gimmicks, bells, whistles, a circus, a petting zoo, and a carnival. Know what that breeds? To many preachers out there in it for the "title" but not taking the responsibility of really seeking what thus saith the Lord for his people. Tell me what "perks" and "notoriety" does being a "theologian" have? Plus, we're a relatively new movement, so this effects us greatly. (Just speaking off some of what I've seen not trying to offend, I love everything about our faith and the truth, and I love to see it handled and treated properly).


ON A BRIGHT NOTE. I've seen a general change in a good direction in P.A.W. and PCAF, and in other organizations.

I can't speak for UPCI, I haven't a clue what's going on there. I tend to learn a lot from the people here, seems to be mostly bad stuff on AFF, but I'm sure there's some good in UPCI, I've gotta take the time to go fellowship with one of ya'll in UPCI's churches one day.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

please tell me why there are no theologians in the apostolic church. I have no idea.

Define Theologian. I have no idea why you think there are none. How come you did not count Daniel Segraves? How about Jason Dulle?

Here is Jason's site
http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/

He also has a blog
http://theosophical.wordpress.com/

Daniel Segraves has one
http://danielsegraves.blogspot.com/

And there are others you can find at PPH

[trialedbyfire]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Define Theologian. I have no idea why you think there are none. How come you did not count Daniel Segraves? How about Jason Dulle?

Here is Jason's site
http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/

He also has a blog
http://theosophical.wordpress.com/

Daniel Segraves has one
http://danielsegraves.blogspot.com/

And there are others you can find at PPH

We listed them. I love Seagraves and Dulle both, Dulle especially.

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Define Theologian. I have no idea why you think there are none. How come you did not count Daniel Segraves? How about Jason Dulle?

Here is Jason's site
http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/

He also has a blog
http://theosophical.wordpress.com/

Daniel Segraves has one
http://danielsegraves.blogspot.com/

And there are others you can find at PPH

prax, I was just hoping for a high quality apostolic internet teaching ministry that covers the apostolic perspective on doctrines like justification, predestination, etc. why aren't any apostolics offering this level of teaching over the internet? mike bickle lets you download all his sermons and teaching notes for free.

[Michael The Disciple]

Does Dulle or Seagraves have anything on Perfection?

[Sam]

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

I can't speak for the whole of the Apostolic Church. I can just speak to what I've seen being in the holiness movement for just the last decade. Our fathers used to have a sincere love for the Word of God (I can say this especially for the P.A.W.). A serious desire to learn, not necessarily on a PhD level, but they LOVED the word. That's why Bishop Tyson in Indiana (who just recently passed) was so revered in our organization. GT Haywood, E.W. Doak, Paul Bowers, Norman Wagner, RC Lawson, these brothers from what I've heard LOVED the Word of God and LOVED the Apostolic Doctrine. You talk about contending for the faith... these people LIVED that. There are still some out there that want to labor. In some of our churches though (and granted I'll say that from my experience this isn't just an OP issue) there are some people that tend to love their "titles" and "positions" and the perks that it gets them, moreso then they love the word. So we as a movement have been in the same place for a while, can't seem to move forward, because SOME not all of the laborers (in the word) are in it for themselves and not the word of God.

But that's just the game now, evangelical churches all over the religious spectrum from Baptist to Pentecostal are becoming "hollywoodized". Preachers aren't expected to pray, read, fast and really labor in the word. They are rock stars, celebrities, pep-ralley leaders, and inspirational speakers. People don't want deep and thorough (so we're told) they want quick, exciting, microwavebly fast, and complete with gimmicks, bells, whistles, a circus, a petting zoo, and a carnival. Know what that breeds? To many preachers out there in it for the "title" but not taking the responsibility of really seeking what thus saith the Lord for his people. Tell me what "perks" and "notoriety" does being a "theologian" have? Plus, we're a relatively new movement, so this effects us greatly. (Just speaking off some of what I've seen not trying to offend, I love everything about our faith and the truth, and I love to see it handled and treated properly).


ON A BRIGHT NOTE. I've seen a general change in a good direction in P.A.W. and PCAF, and in other organizations.

I can't speak for UPCI, I haven't a clue what's going on there. I tend to learn a lot from the people here, seems to be mostly bad stuff on AFF, but I'm sure there's some good in UPCI, I've gotta take the time to go fellowship with one of ya'll in UPCI's churches one day.

I spent several years at the First Apostolic Church in Cincinnati when Bro. Frank Curts was pastor. He was a young minister under Bishop G.T. Haywood and as he matured in the Lord he placed a lot of emphasis on the Word. He used Thomson Bibles. If you are familiar with the Thompson Chain Bible you know that there are four columns per page. The center two columns are Bible text and the outer two are notes. At one time Bro. Curts was a distributor for those Bibles and suggested to the publisher that they leave the outer two columns blank so people could put their own notes in there. Bro. Curts' Bibles were well worn and well marked. He used to teach from large charts on Thursday nights. I got to hear lots of that teaching during the time I was part of the church he pastored. I learned a lot from him. Below is a picture (kinda dark because of poor lighting) of him teaching from a chart on the Tabernacle.