You think Trinitarians accept you? - Page 4

Praxeas · #31 10-02-2011, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narrow Is The Way

I get a kick out of people that think trinitarians believe in 1 God.

Just because they say they believe in one God does not mean they do.

They say they believe in One God but then say there are 3 persons in the Godhead.

So which is it? Are there 3 persons or not.

Just because you have placed 3 persons in a Godhead does not mean that you all of a sudden believe in One God.

You still have 3 separate and distinct persons according to their false doctrine.

Who cares if the 3 persons is in a Godhead or not. It's still 3 persons.

They're still not believing in One God. That's believing in 3 Gods.

Jesus is not in the Godhead but rather the Godhead is in Jesus. Colossians 2:9

Jesus is the Father, Son, Holy Ghost, Redeemer, Councilor, Prince of Peace, etc.

Sometimes you'll find a Trinitarian say "separate and distinct" (though that is redundant), but most say just distinct

How they get one God is that they are not separate but a unified whole. Three persons share one Being, one Spirit, One Nature, One Substance..One Godhead.

That is what they mean by One God, not One Person but one Godhead

Orthodoxy · #32 10-02-2011, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Quite frankly Narrow, it depends on the meaning poured into the word "persons".

If they mean persons similar to human persons then it's problematic. If it means three personas as in "three simultaneous modes of existence" then we have agreement.

Hoovie, would you affirm or deny the following statement?

Quote:

To clarify, to say that each member of the Trinity is a ‘person’ does not mean that God the Father or God the Spirit became human beings. Rather, it means that each member of the Trinity thinks, acts, feels, speaks, and relates because they are persons and not impersonal forces. Further, each member of the Trinity is equally God, which means that they share all the divine attributes, such as eternality, omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence.*

*Thomas F. Torrance, The Christian Doctrine of God: One Being Three Persons, 112-67.

Michael The Disciple · #33 10-02-2011, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amanah

I will also stand for Oneness, Baptism in Jesus Name and the receiving the HG. I will not be moved.

Where I have changed/am changing my view over time is being accepting of others where they are at in the process of knowing Jesus. Some are at repentance, or have received the HG. MTD -You showed me those baptisms on IHOP where they are baptizing in the name of Jesus. How can we be against those whose lives Jesus is working in?

I have basically accepted what you said all through the years. The walk STARTS with faith and repentance. I understand that we all start at the same place. I have never went out just trying to hurt peoples faith but rather to ADD TO.

If one has the Holy Ghost I believe they have Jesus in them. I call them Brother or Sister and do whatever I can to encourage their faith and love. Yet I think we do owe it to the Lord and to the generations that may be coming to hold firm to those things which we know to be true.

Bottom line we must please God rather than men. Most people I talk to I dont have time to give them all the truth they ultimately need. We can only deal with someone to the degree they allow us in their life.

Yes the baptisms at IHOP were done in Jesus name and I feel are valid. I am not against PEOPLE. I am for them! They have some great truth.

Someone on here of late said its a trade off what Church we like.

I love IHOP for the truth they teach. I grieve over them for the error thats still among them.

I love Oneness truth. Why? Because its something to fight about and put people down? Absolutely not! But rather because I love Yeshua Messiah and I want people to see him highly exalted!

Yet Oneness groups teach error too so wow it does make it hard. I want to walk in ALL the truth because it is OF JESUS.

Give me a Church like that.

Michael The Disciple · #34 10-02-2011, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Quite frankly Narrow, it depends on the meaning poured into the word "persons".

If they mean persons similar to human persons then it's problematic. If it means three personas as in "three simultaneous modes of existence" then we have agreement.

Trins do not teach 3 similtaneous modes of existence. Thats what they oppose. Thats what ONENESS TEACHES. There probably are some who dont understand Trinity who say that. Their Teachers would be very disappointed when they hear it.

We have been told the Ancient Trins taught the "persona" thing but why the hatred for Sabellius? That Exactly what HE TAUGHT.

Michael The Disciple · #35 10-02-2011, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Hoovie

Thus the top two accusations don't stand... that we are consecutive modalists and that all Oneness believes affirm Jesus is Father and Son.

We are not consecutive modalist fully agree. But can you explain what it means to be ONENESS and NOT affirm Jesus is the Father and the Son? As I see it thats what Oneness is.

kclee4jc · #36 10-02-2011, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amanah

I will also stand for Oneness, Baptism in Jesus Name and the receiving the HG. I will not be moved.

Where I have changed/am changing my view over time is being accepting of others where they are at in the process of knowing Jesus. Some are at repentance, or have received the HG. MTD -You showed me those baptisms on IHOP where they are baptizing in the name of Jesus. How can we be against those whose lives Jesus is working in?

IHOP was baptizing in Jesus Name?!?! For real???
I wanna see!

Michael The Disciple · #37 10-02-2011, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

IHOP was baptizing in Jesus Name?!?! For real???
I wanna see!

Here you go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxMQXAP48eM

Jermyn Davidson · #38 10-02-2011, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Here you go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxMQXAP48eM

So in your theology, does baptisms performed accidentally in the Name of Jesus count as correct?

In the context of this video, it is clear that he intended to baptize using the Titles, went back to praying, and then forgot to finish his liturgy.

The AoG church I attend purposely uses the Name of Jesus in their baptisms.

This guy lost his train of thought.

Hoovie · #39 10-02-2011, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orthodoxy

Hoovie, would you affirm or deny the following statement?

*Thomas F. Torrance, The Christian Doctrine of God: One Being Three Persons, 112-67.

I would have difficulty affirming that. I have aversion to "members of the Trinity" language, even though I agree all three have divine attributes and are truly God Himself. Also, while we know Father and Son communicated I am not so sure I would say the Holy Spirit related/felt/communicated with, or apart from the Father and Son. The incarnation it'self is what brought rise to the Father/son communicating/relating.

One person of God, and One Jesus Christ, who in addition to being the One God could/did also feel,relate and speak as a man - because he was.

Hoovie · #40 10-02-2011, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

We are not consecutive modalist fully agree. But can you explain what it means to be ONENESS and NOT affirm Jesus is the Father and the Son? As I see it thats what Oneness is.

Well you know how I'll answer, but for the benefit of others...

Jesus, the Son of God, was both God and man.

The "Father in heaven" to whom the Son prayed is God beyond the incarnation.

The Son is God incarnate, while the Father is not. If we confuse terms then it becomes nonsensical. MTD fears it somehow diminishes the divinity of Christ. It does not. YHWH is both Father and Son.