Restoration?

[Sweet Pea]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

When and where does the bible say Jonah lost his paid position of Pastor let alone his unpaid position of prophet?

When and where did David stop being king over Israel for his transgressions.

The bible does not provide such answers. Restoration in terms of what the bible has to say is always a restoration spiritually between God and the man, not a man to his position of authority.

The reason is there are trust issues particularly when someone is in a position of betrayal...ie he cheated on his wife...He cheated on his wife with a church member...he cheated on his wife with the wife of a church member...he stole church funds. That is not a man to God issue. That is a man to church issue

Im not convinced every man that is a Pastor was called or should be a pastor. How they got that position often depends more on the organization of men than the calling of God.

So we finally get to the crux of your posts. Under the circumstances you mention - it would be VERY hard for most people to accept this man as their spiritual leader (pastor). However, other ministers and saints alike should be willing to help restore him spiritually.

For him to ever be restored to a pulpit ministry would depend upon quite a few things - and of course, his attitude!

Obviously, this is a situation that is really bothering you. May Jesus grant you peace and wisdom to deal with all of it. It is very hard!

[UnTraditional]

Hey, when a layman sins, they can repent and be restored. When a minister sins, he can repent, but the call of God is negated, his call removed, and becomes nothing more than a sign of how truly vicious the Church can be in rejecting the fallen wounded of our own.

Remind me never to go to some of your churches. Thanks be to the Lord Jesus for His grace. Even when peter rejected Jesus, when he repented, Jesus restored him back, salvically and positionally. But, I guess that was back then, but not now.

Seriously, some of you people need to understand grace.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

So we finally get to the crux of your posts. Under the circumstances you mention - it would be VERY hard for most people to accept this man as their spiritual leader (pastor). However, other ministers and saints alike should be willing to help restore him spiritually.

For him to ever be restored to a pulpit ministry would depend upon quite a few things - and of course, his attitude!

Obviously, this is a situation that is really bothering you. May Jesus grant you peace and wisdom to deal with all of it. It is very hard!

I could be wrong, and I often am, but I think Prax is talking more in the realm of ideas and hypotheticals here rather than from his own personal experience.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

So we finally get to the crux of your posts. Under the circumstances you mention - it would be VERY hard for most people to accept this man as their spiritual leader (pastor). However, other ministers and saints alike should be willing to help restore him spiritually.

For him to ever be restored to a pulpit ministry would depend upon quite a few things - and of course, his attitude!

Obviously, this is a situation that is really bothering you. May Jesus grant you peace and wisdom to deal with all of it. It is very hard!

This situation does not bother me. I have no first hand experience in this matter. Your attempt to avoid the topic and focus on me is less than genuine. Perhaps you should spend time praying for your own problem with being a false accusor? Would you like us to help?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I could be wrong, and I often am, but I think Prax is talking more in the realm of ideas and hypotheticals here rather than from his own personal experience.

Exactly

[Sweet Pea]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

This situation does not bother me. I have no first hand experience in this matter. Your attempt to avoid the topic and focus on me is less than genuine. Perhaps you should spend time praying for your own problem with being a false accusor? Would you like us to help?

Please forgive me for offending you.

I am sorry that we are misunderstanding each other. I am not attempting to "avoid" the topic - and I had no intention of being a false accuser. I didn't mean to accuse you of anything. I simply thought that you must know of a particular situation and you felt that possibly someone had been restored to a pulpit ministry when circumstances indicated it probably shouldn't have happened.

Again - I am sincere in asking your forgiveness - I am sorry that I apparently misunderstood you and I feel that you also misunderstood my posts.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

Please forgive me for offending you.

I am sorry that we are misunderstanding each other. I am not attempting to "avoid" the topic - and I had no intention of being a false accuser. I didn't mean to accuse you of anything. I simply thought that you must know of a particular situation and you felt that possibly someone had been restored to a pulpit ministry when circumstances indicated it probably shouldn't have happened.

Again - I am sincere in asking your forgiveness - I am sorry that I apparently misunderstood you and I feel that you also misunderstood my posts.

Thank you. It's just a topic of discussion as Pelathius noted.

[Sabby]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

This verse is not speaking to ministers being restored to the Ministry but is speaking of spiritual restoration

The connective tissue to this subject is: is the Ministry intended to be heirarchical, an "office (noun) to be held, or is it doing (verb). If it's the former with our western church paradigm, I'd say no. If it's the latter in an organic ministry, I'd say of course.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Sabby

The connective tissue to this subject is: is the Ministry intended to be heirarchical, an "office (noun) to be held, or is it doing (verb). If it's the former with our western church paradigm, I'd say no. If it's the latter in an organic ministry, I'd say of course.

Id say there is an office of a pastor but the "Ministry" is a "Doing" and is something I believe all saints are called to do. I can't stand the word "Ministry" to apply to a special class of haves within the body of Christ. So of the biggest soul winners have been the have nots.

[Praxeas]

How come if a man cheats on his wife or vice versa, the divorce and the church supports and even tacitly approves without promoting "restoration", but the church is so adament a man be restored to his job as church leader?