I have a question about the UPC - Page 3

Amanah · #21 10-08-2011, 07:10 PM

The church that I spent a good majority of my adult life in preached it this way:

The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus
to obey the gospel, you repent (death), be baptized (burial) in the Name of Jesus Christ for the Remission of your sins, and Receive the HG (resurrection), evidenced by speaking in tongues.

After you are born again of the water and the Spirit, (baptism/HG), the you must obey holiness standards, be at church every time the door is opened, pray every day, fast weekly, pay tithes, ready your bible, win souls, ect, ect, or you are going to hell.

Now you can live in this atmosphere and still have a lot of heart and devotion to God, and there are alot of things that work out ok, but you live in constant fear of missing the mark and going to hell also.

I have won many souls to the Lord, and it came by prayer and fasting and teaching bible studies, but it also came from fear that if I didn't do it, I would go to hell. There came a point when I gave up and said I just couldn't live it anymore. There came a point when I was convinced it was impossible to be saved.

Then, for reasons I don't want to elaborate on, everything changed and my old church is gone. well not really gone, reborn as a new different church.

(at this point I'm skipping some of the story, fast forward in time)

So I come here and learn that the gospel is really the good news about Jesus.
and that I've been very focused on Acts 2:38, 3 steps to being born again.
but forgot that Romans says we are justified by faith when we repent.

And I've been baptized in Jesus name and filled with the HG, evidenced by speaking in tongues.

But a part of me is still afraid that I can't be good enough to go to heaven and that possibly I'm on my way to hell.

So, I have to decide between going back to something I don't want to go back to so I can make sure I'm saved, or going to a church that is probably more like Sherri's church, that would be much less stressfull, probably a lot more enjoyable, but I need to make very sure that I'm going to be saved.

I have many friends in both churches, for when my former church changed to not teaching standards, and believing saved at repentance, (although they still baptize in Jesus Name, believe in oneness, and receiving the HG w/tongues), a good percentage left for the UPC church nearby.

My sister is on board with going to our old church, she feels comfortable there.
I somewhat want to do that also. I'm just afraid I may be wrong. If it's a matter of heaven or hell, I can't afford to be wrong.

I would also prefer to convince myself that universal reconciliation is real.

Or maybe the destruction of lost souls would be good, even if you miss heaven, you don't scream in agony for eternity, you just are gone.

I would not say I'm especially enjoying my salvation atm. Instead I would say I'm very torn and don't know what to do.

And discussing this on this forum is probably not wise, I know.

But now maybe you can understand why I keep asking questions, and going over it over and over again.

How can one way be right, and then all of a sudden, no, It's really another way.

berkeley · #22 10-08-2011, 07:15 PM

Amanah, read houston's signature

Amanah · #23 10-08-2011, 07:39 PM

I actually think I'll memorize this

"...to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Rom 4:4-5

freeatlast · #24 10-08-2011, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amanah

I actually think I'll memorize this

"...to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Rom 4:4-5

You can learn much from doing a good study of Romans.

Dedicated Mind · #25 10-08-2011, 07:56 PM

Amanah, It sounds to me like you are struggling with the same issues of Martin Luther, whether we can merit salvation. I believe catholics teach that by good works you earn merit for salvation while Luther claims we are justified by faith alone. I believe that we should obey the word and that part of faith is obedience, but good works are a product of our salvation and not the means of salvation. I believe that baptism and holiness is part of the obedience of faith that saves us. So I think it is a midddle ground between Luther and catholicism. Does any of this make sense? Let me know what you think.

Amanah · #26 10-08-2011, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeatlast

You can learn much from doing a good study of Romans.

It's funny that you should say that. That is what I'm doing atm.

Amanah · #27 10-08-2011, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

Amanah, It sounds to me like you are struggling with the same issues of Martin Luther, whether we can merit salvation. I believe catholics teach that by good works you earn merit for salvation while Luther claims we are justified by faith alone. I believe that we should obey the word and that part of faith is obedience, but good works are a product of our salvation and not the means of salvation. I believe that baptism and holiness is part of the obedience of faith that saves us. So I think it is a midddle ground between Luther and catholicism. Does any of this make sense? Let me know what you think.

Yes, I just need to unlearn some things . . . really, just tweak some of the things I've learned to be more balanced.

Austin · #28 10-08-2011, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amanah

It's funny that you should say that. That is what I'm doing atm.

I have been reading your responses to a lot of this stuff. I went through all of this back during the late 70's as a result it caused me to leave all christian affiliations. Don't let that happen to you.
You know by common sense there are no churches with the exact truth in the doctrines of Christ. You also know that there is no one out there in any church that lives totally above the power sin all the time.
Now you have the spirit of truth let him lead you. Don't listen to all of this stuff it will drive you crazy.
Salvation is of God not man for no man can keep all the commandments to be justified, if they say they are then they are telling a lie.
The new nature jesus gave us, the power of his spirit in us is our strength to overcome the world. his blood was sprinkled on the mercy seat in heaven one time and for all sin forever. he then went and sat down, which indicates a finished work. he did that before you came into this world and your sins were in that atonement on that day by the foreknowledge of God.
That inheritance was imparted to you the very hour you by faith and repentance received the Lord jesus as your personal savior. As an act of obedience to the scriptures you were baptised and received the Holy Ghost.
When that happen you took on a new nature one created by God and in his likeness. he came to dwell in your soul in person to have a relationship with you as well as lead you in all truth. Now, listen to him and stop listening to everything and everyone, you will only become depressed and discouraged.
Follow Jesus, don't take your eyes off him for any reason, he loved you before the world began and he died for you while you were still a sinner, then how much more does he love you now that you have become his property. he has sworn with an oath that he is able to keep that which you have committed to him against that day of judgement. So look up and rejoice and live in joy.