Bernie Gillispie

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Sam

Romans is a pretty good book.
I realize Bro. S.G. Norris founder of the Apostolic Bible Institute in St. Paul, MN "taught that ministers should not read publicly or preach from certain passages in Romans, Galatians or the text Ephesians 2:8-9 on the grounds that it could breed confusion among parishioners." This is from page 142 of "Christianity Without the Cross" and is based on a Bernie Gillespie interview on November 20, 1999.

In "The Message of Romans" (copyright 1987) David Bernard says, "In this larger purpose for the epistle, we see the hand of God at work. God inspired Paul to write Romans so that the churches could have a clear, powerful statement of the gospel of salvation by faith. As such, God designed Romans to have a universal application." (page 23). Later in the book he qualifies this by defining faith as obedience to certain acts.

In my opinion, if a person reads the Book of Romans, particularly chapters 3 and 4, several times and in several different versions, he/she will come to the conclusion that salvation is by faith alone.

Sam, on the above.
1. Many of the ministers who trained under SGN dispute this or believe that this was taken entirely out of context. My old pastor who trained under SGN in the 50's taught many times from these passages.
2. Sam, I have a high regard for you, even though we differ on many things. But you come off a little arrogant regarding reading/studying Romans. Do you really believe this? What you are implying is that no one who believes differently than you has read or studied these passages.
C'mon Sam, I thought more of you than that. Let me say that I have read, studied and memorized these chapters and I believe they line up perfectly with the beginning of salvation, as laid out in Acts 2.
I do however, believe there could be a difference of opinion, with this.
Evidently you do not.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

Sam, on the above.
1. Many of the ministers who trained under SGN dispute this or believe that this was taken entirely out of context. My old pastor who trained under SGN in the 50's taught many times from these passages.
2. Sam, I have a high regard for you, even though we differ on many things. But you come off a little arrogant regarding reading/studying Romans. Do you really believe this? What you are implying is that no one who believes differently than you has read or studied these passages.
C'mon Sam, I thought more of you than that. Let me say that I have read, studied and memorized these chapters and I believe they line up perfectly with the beginning of salvation, as laid out in Acts 2.
I do however, believe there could be a difference of opinion, with this.
Evidently you do not.

1. The impression I got from Bro. Norris was to steer clear of passages in Romans etc. I only went to ABI for one year but in that year he really emphasized the lessons on "Gospels, Acts, and Epistles" Evidently your pastor did not take it that way.

2. Thank you for calling me on this. The way I worded my post I do sound arrogant and very narrow minded. i do not mean to be. I realize that there is great diversity among Christians on many things and I do not want to appear to be arrogant or a know it all. One of the things that bothers me about some Apostolics is the way they come off as being smug, having a corner on "the Truth," and having such superior knowledge over others and here I have come off that same way to someone. Please forgive me. I guess that's the "old man" or the carnal me manifesting himself.

In Galatians 5:19-21 where the works of "the flesh" or "the lower nature"(NEB) or "the old nature"(CJB), or "human nature without God"(Amplifed) are listed, the NLT (New Living Translation) reads:
19 When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, your lives will produce these evil results: sexual immorality, impure thoughts, eagerness for lustful pleasure, 20 idolatry, participation in demonic activities, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, divisions, the feeling that everyone is wrong except those in your own little group, 21 envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other kinds of sin. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

What bothers me about others --"the feeling that everyone is wrong except those in your own little group"-- has been manifested in my own post.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Sam

1. The impression I got from Bro. Norris was to steer clear of passages in Romans etc. I only went to ABI for one year but in that year he really emphasized the lessons on "Gospels, Acts, and Epistles" Evidently your pastor did not take it that way.

2. Thank you for calling me on this. The way I worded my post I do sound arrogant and very narrow minded. i do not mean to be. I realize that there is great diversity among Christians on many things and I do not want to appear to be arrogant or a know it all. One of the things that bothers me about some Apostolics is the way they come off as being smug, having a corner on "the Truth," and having such superior knowledge over others and here I have come off that same way to someone. Please forgive me. I guess that's the "old man" or the carnal me manifesting himself.

In Galatians 5:19-21 where the works of "the flesh" or "the lower nature"(NEB) or "the old nature"(CJB), or "human nature without God"(Amplifed) are listed, the NLT (New Living Translation) reads:
19 When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, your lives will produce these evil results: sexual immorality, impure thoughts, eagerness for lustful pleasure, 20 idolatry, participation in demonic activities, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, divisions, the feeling that everyone is wrong except those in your own little group, 21 envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other kinds of sin. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

What bothers me about others --"the feeling that everyone is wrong except those in your own little group"-- has been manifested in my own post.

I think the "feeling that others are wrong" could also be a concern that if they are wrong they are lost. I was taught that if you were not baptized in Jesus name for the remission of sins that you were going to hell.

Now from reading posts here I understand that that could be interpreted unto the remission of sins.

But I will be honest with you. If there was someone I cared a fig about who was going to be baptized, I would do my best to persuade them to be baptized in the name.

Having said that, I do not count people who do not agree with me as lost, I leave it in God's hands, knowing that I could be wrong.

I just personally would not want to meet God without being baptized in the name and full of the Holy Ghost. Eternity is to long to be wrong. And I hope that the way I was taught is wrong, or too many people who I love are lost. In fact, I pray that Crakjak is right and we are all saved even if worship an unknown god.

It is certainly not about my own little group, I pretty much despise OP cult like mind control. As Live would say "it disgusts me."

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

Sam, on the above.
1. Many of the ministers who trained under SGN dispute this or believe that this was taken entirely out of context. My old pastor who trained under SGN in the 50's taught many times from these passages.
2. Sam, I have a high regard for you, even though we differ on many things. But you come off a little arrogant regarding reading/studying Romans. Do you really believe this? What you are implying is that no one who believes differently than you has read or studied these passages.
C'mon Sam, I thought more of you than that. Let me say that I have read, studied and memorized these chapters and I believe they line up perfectly with the beginning of salvation, as laid out in Acts 2.
I do however, believe there could be a difference of opinion, with this.
Evidently you do not.

Sam no longer believes the message and has attended Trinitarian churches for years. I doubt Elder Norris said any such thing.

[Steve Epley]

NOT ONE person has been saved from Pentecost until now without obeying Acts 2:38! Call me anything you want.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

NOT ONE person has been saved from Pentecost until now without obeying Acts 2:38! Call me anything you want.

"Well, You Can Call Me Ray, Or You Can Call Me Jay….."

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Sorry Jermyn. You forget, Ive been here longer than you. I watched you progress. your experience was what most are. you had questions you couldnt answer. you read things. It was difficult for you and eventually you came to some difficult decisions. You did this publically right here on AFF. It was not instantanious seeing some light.

The scriptures is what prompted the questions in the first place.

[returnman]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

NOT ONE person has been saved from Pentecost until now without obeying Acts 2:38! Call me anything you want.

I respect you elder Epley and wouldn't expect anything less from you but......

And there have been many lost since then who have obeyed Acts 2:38 for a variety of reasons. All those women that slipped up and cut thier hair, men who decided to wear shorts below the knees, attend baseball games, etc. etc. So you can complete all the steps and have a slim to none chance of even making it.

Don't take me wrong on this but in the 30 years I was in the movement, 75% where borderline lost due to "rebellion" or some other shortcoming.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by returnman

I respect you elder Epley and wouldn't expect anything less from you but......

And there have been many lost since then who have obeyed Acts 2:38 for a variety of reasons. All those women that slipped up and cut thier hair, men who decided to wear shorts below the knees, attend baseball games, etc. etc. So you can complete all the steps and have a slim to none chance of even making it.

Don't take me wrong on this but in the 30 years I was in the movement, 75% where borderline lost due to "rebellion" or some other shortcoming.

If a person has completed the steps of Acts 2:38 isn't he born again. Even if he changes his beliefs wouldn't he still be saved according to the three step doctrine?

[returnman]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

If a person has completed the steps of Acts 2:38 isn't he born again. Even if he changes his beliefs wouldn't he still be saved according to the three step doctrine?

No, he would be an apostate, having known the truth and departed from the faith.