Confidentiality of Tithes - Page 15

freeatlast · #**141** 01-05-2012, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoovie

You are a good man Bro. Epley. I believe that and don't need any convincing. I also believe this to be true about my own pastor.

While I feel there should be more transparency and accountability to those who give, it is this fact that allows me to give freely and without remorse. There are many pastors who are trustworthy beyond reproach and would give their last penny for those God has placed in their care.

I believe you (and others) are like that and I think it should be said and not get lost in the greater debate.

Amen to that

AreYouReady? · #**142** 01-05-2012, 09:27 PM

Pastor Epley, I have no doubt that you have done what you posted. What you done for others are things that many of the people never knew you did. Right?

Sometimes people will do the same because they know that their church will look the other way concerning other people's needs. The pastor that does not look the other way is indeed a rare one. And...I know that there are people who are just out there to scam people and churches out of their hard earned money. They can cry through the relating of their "hard times" and use the money for unsavory reasons. It's hard to make that call sometimes of when to give to others and when not to give.

I don't think that the people hate preachers. It's just some of us have been burned by preachers who have "spiritually abused" with excessive and unreasonable invasion of our privacy. It's not exclusive to UPC churches. I know an elderly couple whose Pastor (not UPC) makes all the decisions in their home life. They must ask permission to even leave town or to have holiday celebrations at their own home instead of at their church fellowship.

Personally, I am of the opinion that my husband is "my head" and spiritual leader, and Christ is my husband's authority and spiritual leader. I just do not feel that any body outside my home has the right to usurp my husband's authority in his home, as some pastors try to do. I feel that our submitting means to submit to the authority of Christ. There is no "head" in the church because Jesus told his disciples not to have Kings "lord" over them. It was not to be so.

Many men feel as though they are emasculated when a preacher goes right over their head over medical decisions, money decisions, vacations, buying large items...to me, that is personal business and nobody has the right to intervene in a household's decision how they spend their money or what kind of medical decisions to make.

So...for me when I post about what frustrates me about controlling pastors, don't take it personally. I know not all pastors are this controlling, but then I haven't had a pastor who is a "rarity".

Steve Epley · #**143** 01-05-2012, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeatlast

No you don't and I respect that.

1. I was right ..you believe 100% of the tithes are thsole propery of the preacher, (we do appreciate that you share them back when needs arise.)

2. Seemed a bit of a dodge to the question. You'd be willing to tell someone if they asked, BUT do you disclose in your annual business meeting, where all monies that come into the church, are spent? Such as salaries for paid staff.

or do you conduct a business meeting yearly.

There never was a policy here concerning business meetings. Never had one all the history of this church so I am keeping with the policy.

However I have pastored where yearly business meetings were required by the bylaws and we had them and no I did not disclose what the tithing was. We did disclose the offerings.

If I was asked I would tell a tithepayer. Look you guys don't know me I am not a head slapper or rude. I do not think anyone who knows me would fear reprisal for asking me. I have been a member in an assembly paid tithes and gave offerings I never felt the need to know?

Sweet Pea · #**144** 01-05-2012, 11:11 PM

God bless you, Brother Epley!

Jay · #**145** 01-06-2012, 12:30 AM

Bro. Epley, I have seen in the last two years much of what you described happen.

I would like to tell what happened, but I do not wish to vent or sound like I am.

I will say that there was a family that would not contribute when they were unhappy. They never went to a conference. They criticized the pastor for everything that he should/should not have done, said, contributed, spent, planned, etc. They were especially unhappy whenever he tried to make the parsonage nice for his wife. He would try to do some church repair (there is a lot of work to be done) and then do some parsonage work for his wife (she does have to live there, and it is an example of who they are). But they did not support it, and complained whenever actual work on the church ended (even when there was no more money to go forward). There is no pleasing some people.

Jay · #**146** 01-06-2012, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

God bless you, Brother Epley!

Having heard Bro. Epley preach for the first time, I enjoyed his preaching.

I have to give this a resounding, "Amen!!"

Titus2woman · #**147** 01-06-2012, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay

Bro. Epley, I have seen in the last two years much of what you described happen.

I would like to tell what happened, but I do not wish to vent or sound like I am.

I will say that there was a family that would not contribute when they were unhappy. They never went to a conference. They criticized the pastor for everything that he should/should not have done, said, contributed, spent, planned, etc. They were especially unhappy whenever he tried to make the parsonage nice for his wife. He would try to do some church repair (there is a lot of work to be done) and then do some parsonage work for his wife (she does have to live there, and it is an example of who they are). But they did not support it, and complained whenever actual work on the church ended (even when there was no more money to go forward). There is no pleasing some people.

That is a terrible and sad story. I have yet to meet a preacher willing to live in a parsonage. Ours all live two towns over in the upscale suburbs.

Jay · #**148** 01-06-2012, 01:04 AM

The pastor is bivocational (a decent paying job), and his wife also works (this supports their bills and the church). The pastor has taken none of the tithes, and has in fact put more into the church than the church ever saw.

To borrow from the title of an earlier thread, 'The church and the pastor will survive."

Truthseeker · #**149** 01-06-2012, 04:25 AM

If a pastor doesn't want to reveal how much tithes was received then should be ok if nsaint chooses not to revela how much tithe they pay.

shag · #**150** 01-06-2012, 06:01 AM

IMO, theres No reason a pastor alone should receive 10% of everybody else's annual income anyway, if we are to follow scripture, as "the ministry"(the term SOME pastors like to use)is NOT just pastors(mentioned one time in the NT bible, and zero times in the singular -NT KJV), but is teachers, evangelists etc. And if one attempts to make a case from the OT, they cannot do so without stealing from the poor and fatherless, and folks that minister in the body of Christ like evangelists , teachers etc.,as NT "priesthood" goes beyond the role of just a elder/pastor.

If w'd stick with scripture(not twisted), then elders/pastors likely wouldn't have any problem letting the people of God know exactly where there money is going.

What's wrong with paid salaries to each or ALL that minister in and to the body, IF the body decides they want to give toward that? And disclose all figures to who and where it goes?

I appreciate the fact that U said you'd atleast disclose it to the tithers if they asked individually, Bro. Epley, that is more than some would do no doubt.