Confidentiality of Tithes

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop

If you don't give anything - why is it any of your business what ANYBODY GIVES or how ANY CHURCH disperses it or what a Pastor does with it. If you don't give anything - keep your mouth shut and worry with your own self!
You worry with your own little church or house meeting and we will make sure GOD'S CHURCH is taken care of!
Stingy, selfish. tightwads, non-tithers, robbers of God and man, thieves, hypocrites that want to tell a God Ordained Man of God what to do. Give me a break! So glad you have NEVER come to my church! We sure don't need anymore free loaders at our church!

I know of church members that stole right out of the offering plate and some that committed adultery in the Sunday School room. I know of church members that lied, cheated, fornicated and committed all kinds of immorality and claimed to have the Holy Ghost. You are so worried about a preacher - maybe you should try being one!Oh yes, There is a Check mark that has ABC over it on here - that is a SPELL CHECKER!

Classic. BTW, I am a preacher, and though I'm not against a preacher being supported, I make great money in a secular job and everywhere I've ever preached I preach for free. Probably my favorite place to preach is the country jail and the offerings aren't real big there. However, to change gears, I can't help by notice how nasty your spirit is all of the time:

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop

If you don't want to tithe then go on and be cursed with the rest of the robbers. I so weary of stingy, tightwads who always want to boast about how much they know and then try to fight the Word of God and the ministry to get people out from under the blessings of God. You are not going to accomplish anything. Pure ignorance!
This is not the first lie you have told! Seems like you have a pattern of not telling the truth! SAD and I won't waste my time on you and your deception! How stupid can you get - READ THE BIBLE!

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop

Why don't you throw your Bible in the trash can - you do not believe it - you want to argue it all away. Why don't you go become a Buddhist or a Hindu?
Why should anyone waste time with you doubters.
All you want is to argue and tell lies.

Having pastored thousands of people over the past 35 years - I can tell you - the people that do not tithe are robbers and they steal from God.
I like what the old black preacher said on radio years ago - "YOU GONNA SLIDE STRAIGHT TO HELL ON THAT THIN DIME YOU STEAL OUT OF GOD'S DOLLAR!"
I don't think I would want to go to hell for stealing a dime out of a dollar!

Jason, I would not take my coat off in your house - If you would rob God - You would be in my coat trying to rob me!

Again - Endless arguments - I have better things to do than to waste more time on this - I AM DONE with you robbers and thieves.
.

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop

SO TRUE! Stingy, Selfish, Arrogant, Cheap and NUTS!

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop

I had some big heifer jump up one night in a business meeting and shout - I want to know how the money in this church is handled!
I said - Well, It is handled JUST FINE! Were you particularly asking about what YOU gave because we have not found ANY record of anything you have given thus far!
I announced the second time that ONLY MEMBERS were allowed to speak at the church business meeting and dismissed her to leave the building! She was a big mouth and a trouble maker and caused trouble every where she went and didn't give a red cent!

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop

I heard an old preacher say once - and I believe him - "You can't be delivered of STUPID!" If ignorance is bliss - someone on here is a happy camper!

Is it your personal goal to insult someone every time you post "bishop"? If so, you're not meeting that goal, but you are pretty close.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by houston

actually I am on ya'lls side. but she is bringing out your bad side.

adios!

Ahhh... my mistake! I did not know that there were sides. And one can not 'bring out' what is not there. Out of the mouth proceeds the heart.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

Ahhh... my mistake! I did not know that there were sides. And one can not 'bring out' what is not there. Out of the mouth proceeds the heart.

Your tone hasn't been much dif than his. He bugs out here and there. You have been more consistant.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Rudy

I knew of a situation where an overseer felt he had to follow a sister over seas to the Olympics. She was a track athlete. Don't know who paid for it.

The tithing thingy is interesting in seeing that I thought to get 501c3 tax break there must be a board. Can all the tax free money go to just one individual?? Is that legal?

I don't know why I mentioned the track athlete and her Pastor. In reading it I can see why it was taken as Pastor bashing-lol. So I apologize for that.

The 501c3 question is relevant to the thread.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by houston

actually I am on ya'lls side. but she is bringing out your bad side.

adios!

Originally Posted by houston

Your tone hasn't been much dif than his. He bugs out here and there. You have been more consistant.

Thank you, I appreciate consistency.

Which 'he' are you referring to? Actually if it is AB I believe it was you who called him bipolar??? Crazy has got to top small minded loud mouth, doesn't it? Then you announced you had 'changed sides'? Are you trying to start a division? I thought we were discussing opinions and AB certainly does not seem the tender type who can not take frank talk.

I think I have already admitted that I will need to repent of what I have thought of AB. He reminds me much of my first pastor, an arrogant and mean spirited man who did much damage to my family with his harshness.

Bro. Epley OTOH seems a nice fellow, misguided and tired but nice.

I am not sure still how that makes 'sides'... Is this not a place where we are honest in our opinions? I have been honest. Truth is not always kind, although I wish it were. I will however endeavor to be more kind, especially concerning Bro. Epley, as is befitting a Christian woman.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop

If you don't give anything - why is it any of your business what ANYBODY GIVES or how ANY CHURCH disperses it or what a Pastor does with it. If you don't give anything - keep your mouth shut and worry with your own self!You worry with your own little church or house meeting and we will make sure GOD'S CHURCH is taken care of!
Stingy, selfish. tightwads, non-tithers, robbers of God and man, thieves, hypocrites that want to tell a God Ordained Man of God what to do. Give me a break! So glad you have NEVER come to my church! We sure don't need anymore free loaders at our church!

You want the truth? You can't handle the truth! But here it is anyway, you have no business calling yourself a Bishop. You come on here an speak of people who have attended your church as big heifers, free loaders, and a host derogatory names. You insult the people of AFF and spew your vileness all over the board. I don't blame you for posting as Atlanta Bishop, because if I were you I wouldn't want someone in my church to google my name and see how you talk to people (or what you say about those of your own church). You are unqualified and should be disqualified, you are self appointed and self anointed. On what criteria can you legitimately claim to be a bishop? Certainly not on the criteria given by Paul, let's take a look, feel free to vidicate yourself.


1 Timothy 3:1 It is a true saying that if someone wants to be an elder, he desires an honorable responsibility. 2 For an elder must be a man whose life cannot be spoken against. He must be faithful to his wife. He must exhibit self-control, live wisely, and have a good reputation. He must enjoy having guests in his home and must be able to teach. 3 He must not be a heavy drinker or be violent. He must be gentle, peace loving, and not one who loves money. 4 He must manage his own family well, with children who respect and obey him. 5 For if a man cannot manage his own household, how can he take care of God's church? 6 An elder must not be a new Christian, because he might be proud of being chosen so soon, and the Devil will use that pride to make him fall. (NLT)


1 Timothy 3:1 It is a true saying that if someone wants to be an elder, he desires an honorable responsibility

Of course the word in the KJV is "Bishop" instead of elder. While the Bible says its good to desire to be a bishop, I'm not sure that it condones the kind of desire you seem to have for recognition, a title, and a position.


V.2a For an elder must be a man whose life cannot be spoken against.

You seem to give much reason for people to speak out against you. You've had people on this board rejoice that you are not that pastor and even express gratitude that they will never have to meet you in "real life." Do you even stop and think about how you are perceived? Is your heart even sensative enough to care? Even if someone is just a person on the internet and they spoke such against me, I would bury my face in my chair in prayer and ask God to help me search my own heart to make sure I am not actually giving them reason to say such things, and if I AM, then God please reveal it to me so I can repent. When such statements are made towards you, it only seems to flame your rage.

v.2b He must be faithful to his wife.
check (I assume).

v.2c He must exhibit self-control, live wisely, and have a good reputation.

You do anything BUT exhibit self control. You seem to exhibit a complete lack of self control, and your reputation is horrible, quite frankly.

v.2d He must enjoy having guests in his home and must be able to teach.

The KJV version speaks of hospitality rather than just entertaining people. I don't know how hospitable you are, but you haven't appeared to be caring for people. Perhaps you would be hospitible to a tithe payer, but it seems unlikely towards anyone else.

As for teaching, I've not heard your teaching, but I have my doubts. You are probably a master expositor (in your own eyes).

V3a He must not be a heavy drinker or be violent.

I assume you are not a drinker or physically violent. I assume you are all bark and no bite. I assume you meet this criteria.

v.3b He must be gentle, peace loving,

Uh-oh. BIG PROBLEMS. He MUST be gentle and peace loving. Well, AB, your in luck because the word MUST does not appear in the KJV, so I guess you can continue to treat gentleness and peace loving as optional for bishops. I can tell you don't believe it should be required of a Bishop.

v.3c and not one who loves money.

To be fair, I don't know that you love money. But I know you have a strong dislike (hatred?) for people who don't give what you think they should. At one time you had a picture of yourself on AFF in front a a shiny black car, looked more like the cover of a rap album than a picture of a humble servant, just sayin. You lash out most aggressively when money is the topic. Do you love money? I don't know. Perhaps you believe that money loves you? In either event you don't seem to live up to the idea required of bishops by scripture, but there's still more criteria.


v.4 He must manage his own family well, with children who respect and obey him. v.5 For if a man cannot manage his own household, how can he take care of God's church?

I assume you meet the qualifications of v.4


v.6a An elder must not be a new Christian,
check, if Christian means knowing the facts of the gospel of Jesus Christ and all the religious lingo. If christian means living a life of humilty, self denial, and esteeming others above oneself, well..........

v.6b because he might be proud of being chosen so soon

While this verse speaks of the pride of a novice, I think all would agree pride should not be a quality of a bishop. You seem quite the opposite, your list your "accomplishments" more than Obama. We know, we know, you've ministers in over 35 countries, pastored thousands, had 200 churches look up to you as bishop, did this, did that, got the t-shirt. To quote a worldly song, Big deal,so what, who cares? Have you ever read the first 3 verses of 1 Corinthians 13. NOTHING you do matters if you don't have love. I for one (and I'm probably not alone) wouldn't be impressed if you fed the whole free world as long as you keep coming on here tearing down other christians, throwing around your title and what you consider accomplishments (which others call self righteousness, a la, Luke 18:11-12. You may not have been a novice, but you seem to be lifted up with pride because of position.

v6c and the Devil will use that pride to make him fall.

AB, if you had the patience to read this whole post, this is the reason I am posting it. I know it is very sharp, but the fact is you do not seem to exhibit the qualifications of a bishop. You seem to exhibit the qualifications of a hireling. I disagree with Elder Epley, but he seems to at least bear the fruit of the spirit, such is not evident in your posts. The post you posted in reponse to Aquillas personal story was amazing. It was caring, compassionate, and I was really impressed by you. But that was 1 post, and there are about 999 other posts of yours which are anti-christian. Jesus would never talk to or about people the way you do. I haven;t called you a liar, a thief, immoral, or anything else. I give you the benefit of the doubt for being a good family man who runs his house well, though I don't know you. Perhaps the only thing you could claim is "personal" is that I called you a hireling, and you haven't said anything (minus the one post to Aquilla) that makes me think or believe anything else. Yet the whole time you come on here and personally insult people, judge their motives, and in the process make yourself look foolish.

I'm not asking you to get into a tit for tat with me. I am telling you up front, using my real name, that your posts sicken me, I think they are a shame. What is shameful isn't the posts themselves (though they are not fitting of anyone who claims to be a christian) but that you claim to be a BISHOP and a shepherd. If you are not the kind of person you are coming across as, perhaps you should at least consider how others are perceiving you. I believe that you should repent and seek to truly fulfill the qualifications of a BISHOP according to 1 Timothy 3:1-6.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Well I wasn't there for y'all I was there for them. I certainly was not in the delivery room. AND I went back and checked on them this evening. I know one thing y'all are happy I am not your pastor AND I am happy I am not your pastor.
So everyone is happy.

That's an interesting post after we filled nearly a page while you were gone telling how much we loved you and would choose you as our pastor over AB.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Well I wasn't there for y'all I was there for them. I certainly was not in the delivery room. AND I went back and checked on them this evening. I know one thing y'all are happy I am not your pastor AND I am happy I am not your pastor.
So everyone is happy.

I have given some serious thought and prayer to this thread this morning. I do publicly repent of calling AB a small minded big mouth. For no matter how many names someone calls me or how then criticize my deepest beliefs I have no right to repay in kind.

I think I have been particularly disturbed by the differences and similarities of AB and SE in this thread because from the view of them here I see my old pastor and my new pastor personified.

I have shared before that I came from a very abusive church, one that did much damage to my family. I left my church home and went to another church leaving behind everyone that I love.... And now I find that while my new pastor is more loving and more compassionate he still shares being totally fixed in doctrine that is not biblical and is unwilling to examine his position at all. He is completely entrenched in the UPCI message in all of it's flawed practices.

So after years of forcing my spirit to compromise with what I know is unbiblical. I am at a place where I may needs move on again and am very unhappy about it. I am a person who really values stability and relationships and I do not doubt that my pastor loves me and my family and I love him.

This is a very sad time for me and is the largest part of what made me seek out this board. But a part of me is also angry. I have asked again and again if the HG is to lead us to all truth, why are we so sadly lacking?

So my apologies to you Bro. E for seeing another in you and reading too much into your posts.

AB I still do not care for your abusiveness at all and do not believe you worthy of your office but I am completely sure that you do not care a wit what I think so it really matters not.

[Jay]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

You want the truth? You can't handle the truth! But here it is anyway, you have no business calling yourself a Bishop. You come on here an speak of people who have attended your church as big heifers, free loaders, and a host derogatory names. You insult the people of AFF and spew your vileness all over the board. I don't blame you for posting as Atlanta Bishop, because if I were you I wouldn't want someone in my church to google my name and see how you talk to people (or what you say about those of your own church). You are unqualified and should be disqualified, you are self appointed and self anointed. On what criteria can you legitimately claim to be a bishop? Certainly not on the criteria given by Paul, let's take a look, feel free to vidicate yourself.


1 Timothy 3:1 It is a true saying that if someone wants to be an elder, he desires an honorable responsibility. 2 For an elder must be a man whose life cannot be spoken against. He must be faithful to his wife. He must exhibit self-control, live wisely, and have a good reputation. He must enjoy having guests in his home and must be able to teach. 3 He must not be a heavy drinker or be violent. He must be gentle, peace loving, and not one who loves money. 4 He must manage his own family well, with children who respect and obey him. 5 For if a man cannot manage his own household, how can he take care of God's church? 6 An elder must not be a new Christian, because he might be proud of being chosen so soon, and the Devil will use that pride to make him fall. (NLT)


1 Timothy 3:1 It is a true saying that if someone wants to be an elder, he desires an honorable responsibility

Of course the word in the KJV is "Bishop" instead of elder. While the Bible says its good to desire to be a bishop, I'm not sure that it condones the kind of desire you seem to have for recognition, a title, and a position.


V.2a For an elder must be a man whose life cannot be spoken against.

You seem to give much reason for people to speak out against you. You've had people on this board rejoice that you are not that pastor and even express gratitude that they will never have to meet you in "real life." Do you even stop and think about how you are perceived? Is your heart even sensative enough to care? Even if someone is just a person on the internet and they spoke such against me, I would bury my face in my chair in prayer and ask God to help me search my own heart to make sure I am not actually giving them reason to say such things, and if I AM, then God please reveal it to me so I can repent. When such statements are made towards you, it only seems to flame your rage.

v.2b He must be faithful to his wife.
check (I assume).

v.2c He must exhibit self-control, live wisely, and have a good reputation.

You do anything BUT exhibit self control. You seem to exhibit a complete lack of self control, and your reputation is horrible, quite frankly.

v.2d He must enjoy having guests in his home and must be able to teach.

The KJV version speaks of hospitality rather than just entertaining people. I don't know how hospitable you are, but you haven't appeared to be caring for people. Perhaps you would be hospitible to a tithe payer, but it seems unlikely towards anyone else.

As for teaching, I've not heard your teaching, but I have my doubts. You are probably a master expositor (in your own eyes).

V3a He must not be a heavy drinker or be violent.

I assume you are not a drinker or physically violent. I assume you are all bark and no bite. I assume you meet this criteria.

v.3b He must be gentle, peace loving,

Uh-oh. BIG PROBLEMS. He MUST be gentle and peace loving. Well, AB, your in luck because the word MUST does not appear in the KJV, so I guess you can continue to treat gentleness and peace loving as optional for bishops. I can tell you don't believe it should be required of a Bishop.

v.3c and not one who loves money.

To be fair, I don't know that you love money. But I know you have a strong dislike (hatred?) for people who don't give what you think they should. At one time you had a picture of yourself on AFF in front a a shiny black car, looked more like the cover of a rap album than a picture of a humble servant, just sayin. You lash out most aggressively when money is the topic. Do you love money? I don't know. Perhaps you believe that money loves you? In either event you don't seem to live up to the idea required of bishops by scripture, but there's still more criteria.


v.4 He must manage his own family well, with children who respect and obey him. v.5 For if a man cannot manage his own household, how can he take care of God's church?

I assume you meet the qualifications of v.4


v.6a An elder must not be a new Christian,
check, if Christian means knowing the facts of the gospel of Jesus Christ and all the religious lingo. If christian means living a life of humilty, self denial, and esteeming others above oneself, well..........

v.6b because he might be proud of being chosen so soon

While this verse speaks of the pride of a novice, I think all would agree pride should not be a quality of a bishop. You seem quite the opposite, your list your "accomplishments" more than Obama. We know, we know, you've ministers in over 35 countries, pastored thousands, had 200 churches look up to you as bishop, did this, did that, got the t-shirt. To quote a worldly song, Big deal,so what, who cares? Have you ever read the first 3 verses of 1 Corinthians 13. NOTHING you do matters if you don't have love. I for one (and I'm probably not alone) wouldn't be impressed if you fed the whole free world as long as you keep coming on here tearing down other christians, throwing around your title and what you consider accomplishments (which others call self righteousness, a la, Luke 18:11-12. You may not have been a novice, but you seem to be lifted up with pride because of position.

v6c and the Devil will use that pride to make him fall.

AB, if you had the patience to read this whole post, this is the reason I am posting it. I know it is very sharp, but the fact is you do not seem to exhibit the qualifications of a bishop. You seem to exhibit the qualifications of a hireling. I disagree with Elder Epley, but he seems to at least bear the fruit of the spirit, such is not evident in your posts. The post you posted in reponse to Aquillas personal story was amazing. It was caring, compassionate, and I was really impressed by you. But that was 1 post, and there are about 999 other posts of yours which are anti-christian. Jesus would never talk to or about people the way you do. I haven;t called you a liar, a thief, immoral, or anything else. I give you the benefit of the doubt for being a good family man who runs his house well, though I don't know you. Perhaps the only thing you could claim is "personal" is that I called you a hireling, and you haven't said anything (minus the one post to Aquilla) that makes me think or believe anything else. Yet the whole time you come on here and personally insult people, judge their motives, and in the process make yourself look foolish.

I'm not asking you to get into a tit for tat with me. I am telling you up front, using my real name, that your posts sicken me, I think they are a shame. What is shameful isn't the posts themselves (though they are not fitting of anyone who claims to be a christian) but that you claim to be a BISHOP and a shepherd. If you are not the kind of person you are coming across as, perhaps you should at least consider how others are perceiving you. I believe that you should repent and seek to truly fulfill the qualifications of a BISHOP according to 1 Timothy 3:1-6.

Sir, Jesus called people serpents, seplechures, graves, filthy dishes, unwashed, theives, robbers, idolators, and worse, and those were the people that He had the most in common with (Jesus was in no fashion a Sadducee). He called them rebellious, userpers, liars, decievers, and destined for Hell's fire. According to your accusations against AB, you would condemn Jesus Himself, as well as Paul, Peter, Jude, James, John the Baptist, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Malachai, etc. for saying such things about the "believers' of their day.

For all of the seeming frustration that is revealed in his posts (as the son of a bivocational Pastor I understand better than most), I find that his invective to actually fall short of Biblical proportions. I might not agree with him that all that way, but I have found that his statements hold more truth than many would desire to believe.

I have listened to a number of preachers over the radio (denominational or, just for the amusement of AB, denominal) who have stated that they have found that the people in their churches who tithe are also the most faithful in giving and service. They are also the most blessed in the congregation. They then say that they do not believe that it is required, but that it is a very good practice, and one that they themselves practice.

[Jay]

One last note for the time being, if I needed a pastor, I would not have a problem with one such as Bro. Epley, or one who sounded like AB. However, I am not going to need anoher as I already have the best.