Deathbed Salvation

[TyronePalmer]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Do you believe Jesus was lying when He delegated the authority to administer the remission of sins (John 20:23)?

Even the Law of Moses allowed an exception for a man who couldn't afford a lamb.

Would you pray for the dying if asked?

Can you answer the questions I asked you?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by TyronePalmer

Can you answer the questions I asked you?

In context, I believe that Jesus spoke with regards to able bodied people. Nowhere does Jesus address the sick, infirm, dying or otherwise "unable" in relation to being born again. Nowhere do we see Jesus or the Apostles denying a dying persons wish to be prayed for and forgiven. Therefore, I believe that we can't argue that JESUS would tell us NOT to pray for a dying man's salvation. Now, James DOES address the prayer of faith and the anointing with oil for the sick that they might be saved, raised up, and forgiven of their sin. Why shouldn't this apply to the dying? After all, are they not the most sick among us???

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by TyronePalmer

Can you answer the questions I asked you?

Now, can you answer the questions I've posted?

[TyronePalmer]

Originally Posted by Aquila

In context, I believe that Jesus spoke with regards to able bodied people. Nowhere does Jesus address the sick, infirm, dying or otherwise "unable" in relation to being born again. Nowhere do we see Jesus or the Apostles denying a dying persons wish to be prayed for and forgiven. Therefore, I believe that we can't argue that JESUS would tell us NOT to pray for a dying man's salvation. Now, James DOES address the prayer of faith and the anointing with oil for the sick that they might be saved, raised up, and forgiven of their sin. Why shouldn't this apply to the dying? After all, are they not the most sick among us???

Then that's what you believe. I believe He meant exactly what He said, and I don't add to or take away from what's written.

What Jesus said in John 20:23 is truth and He gave His eleven apostles in the first century authority to forgive or retain sins.

You asked if I would pray for the dying if asked?

Why wouldn't I? Because I believe that Jesus can heal the dying and raise the dead so that they can obey His word and have their soul saved. The Lord is not going to go against His own word to appease us!

I stated this in another comment to you, that James was clearly talking about brothers and sisters in Christ, he was not talking about praying for and anointing unbelievers. Read above.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by TyronePalmer

Then that's what you believe. I believe He meant exactly what He said, and I don't add to or take away from what's written.

What Jesus said in John 20:23 is truth and He gave His eleven apostles in the first century authority to forgive or retain sins.

You asked if I would pray for the dying if asked?

Why wouldn't I? Because I believe that Jesus can heal the dying and raise the dead so that they can obey His word and have their soul saved. The Lord is not going to go against His own word to appease us!

I stated this in another comment to you, that James was clearly talking about brothers and sisters in Christ, he was not talking about praying for and anointing unbelievers. Read above.

James asked if there were ANY sick among them. That means ANY.

You imply that if a brother or a sister had a sick and dying unsaved spouse or child crying for God's mercy, you'd deny them the anointing of oil and the prayer of faith that they might receive what is promised in James 5:14-15.

I'd anoint them with oil as we prayed and claimed the promises of James 5:14-15 in the name of Jesus. Then, if they died, I'd commit their soul to a just and loving God. Understanding that He alone can judge the soul, and I'd believe for the best. For His mercy endureth forever.

Salvation isn't a plan or formula. Salvation is a person, and His name is Jesus. He alone has authority to save in any given circumstance. You tie His hands...legalistically clinging to your interpretation. Leave all doors open for God. We get into so much trouble the moment we say, "God can't..."

I was a medic in the Army bro. Sometimes you have to carry the wounded because they can't walk on their own. And you never give up on trying to save them as long as they have breath in their lungs.

I'm God's medic. If someone is dying and crying out for mercy, hand me the oil...or... shut your trap and get out of my way.

[Jay]

T2W, I understand what you are saying, however, I would call you proof of our argument. No, you did not know the entire truth until your 40s, however God gradually led you because you were hungry and willing to listen and obey as He revealed more.

I interact with a wide variety of people, and there are a large number who have not heard of Pentecost. However, I have had interactions with a substantial number of people who have heard what we believe, but have never met a Oneness Pentecostal. They know of us and our doctrine by reputation.

Mom never knew of Pentecost, but her father did and made a concerted effort to keep his children away from it. He was furious when Mom converted. In the end, they sent my youngest uncle to church with her because they did not want him to be like some of his other siblings.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by Jay

T2W, I understand what you are saying, however, I would call you proof of our argument. No, you did not know the entire truth until your 40s, however God gradually led you because you were hungry and willing to listen and obey as He revealed more.

I interact with a wide variety of people, and there are a large number who have not heard of Pentecost. However, I have had interactions with a substantial number of people who have heard what we believe, but have never met a Oneness Pentecostal. They know of us and our doctrine by reputation.

Mom never knew of Pentecost, but her father did and made a concerted effort to keep his children away from it. He was furious when Mom converted. In the end, they sent my youngest uncle to church with her because they did not want him to be like some of his other siblings.

Well Jay I can only say I wish they had gotten to me sooner... but better late than never! I believe that someone who experiences deathbed salvation would feel a lot like that, a lifetime of regrets for God's work left undone but those regrets washed away by the blood. I think it is our human minds that just can not comprehend the mercy of God and try to deny Him his power to save those that we would like to believe don't deserve it. I wonder what God thinks of us spending time trying to guess who is in hell.

[Aquila]

I think some live in such legalistic bondage they resent the idea that someone might be given a chance at heaven after not living a life of the standards they have allowed to be put on themselves.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I think some live in such legalistic bondage they resent the idea that someone might be given a chance at heaven after not living a life of the standards they have allowed to be put on themselves.

... and I think you are correct.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

Well Jay I can only say I wish they had gotten to me sooner... but better late than never! I believe that someone who experiences deathbed salvation would feel a lot like that, a lifetime of regrets for God's work left undone but those regrets washed away by the blood. I think it is our human minds that just can not comprehend the mercy of God and try to deny Him his power to save those that we would like to believe don't deserve it. I wonder what God thinks of us spending time trying to guess who is in hell.

Yep, the elder brother syndrome, is so common among those with a lifetime in the Father's house. Feeling that they are deprived of really living, and they just like the prodigal have failed to actually enter into HIS life.

The difference between the broadway and the narrow path, few find it. "Perfect love cast out all fear", we have not arrived, but thank God, we are on the journey. Hell in not the issue here, LIFE is the issue.