Common Myths about Gay Christians

[Orthodoxy]

What do you guys think about this blog post?

The common myths listed are:

Myth #1: Gay people, including Christians, always choose their same sex desires.

Myth #2: Same-sex attracted Christians can always experience a reversal of their desires, and, in essence, become straight.

Myth #3: Any Christian who continues to experience same-sex desires is in sin.

Read the whole post for further explanation.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Orthodoxy

What do you guys think about this blog post?

The common myths listed are:

Myth #1: Gay people, including Christians, always choose their same sex desires.

Myth #2: Same-sex attracted Christians can always experience a complete reversal of their desires, and, in essence, become straight.

Myth #3: Any Christian who continues to experience same-sex desires is in sin.

Read the whole post for further explanation.

I agree essentially with the three statements. The third stresses desires and not actions. Desires need to be dealt with but carrying them out is the rank sin. We all desire sinful things, or else we would not be tempted. But carrying them out is the problem. The need is for the work of the cross to remove the desire of such a thing. Jesus also said that lusting in our hearts is like committing the act. But the second may be up for debate since sin is in the blood sometimes... Not born there, but hard to extract.

[DaveC519]

Originally Posted by Orthodoxy

What do you guys think about this blog post?

The common myths listed are:

Myth #1: Gay people, including Christians, always choose their same sex desires.

Myth #2: Same-sex attracted Christians can always experience a complete reversal of their desires, and, in essence, become straight.

Myth #3: Any Christian who continues to experience same-sex desires is in sin.

Read the whole post for further explanation.

I read the blog, and I would say the author has succumbed to a myth which itself needs to be "debunked": the myth that there is such a thing as a "gay-oriented" Christian.

The second myth the author perpetuates is that the Bible differentiates between thought and action. "As long as I only think homosexual thoughts and don't engage in homosexual practice, I'm okay."

I'll address the second myth first. According to Mt 5:28, Scripture does not differentiate between thoughts and actions. If we allow sinful thoughts to develop into lusts, even if we don't act on them, the Bible says it's the same as if we had acted on them. That's why Paul said we are commanded to bring every thought "into captivity to the obedience of Christ" (2Cor 10:5).

Now, the second myth: there is such a thing as a "gay-oriented" Christian. Paul said:

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God" (1Cor 6:9-11 NASU).

According to Paul, regardless of our prior unrighteous "orientation", after becoming born again, we are no longer associated with those titles/labels/sinful states. We become "new creatures" in Christ:

“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;” (2 Cor 5:17-18 KJV)

As regards to our sexuality, there are only two "orientations" in Christ as a new creature: those who are disposed to heterosexual marriage, and those who are celibate (Mt 19, 1Cor 7, Heb 13:4, etc.). Again, all sexual thoughts which occur outside the context of heterosexual marriage- regardless of the subject matter- are to be "brought into captivity to the obedience of Christ" (2Cor 10:5).

So we see from Scripture that there is no such thing as a "gay-oriented" Christian. If a Christian- a "new creature" in Christ Jesus- experiences a particular temptation, they are to bring those thoughts into captivity to Christ, and we are promised that no temptation we encounter would be so strong as to bring us into bondage, but that God will give us the victory over it (1Cor 10:13).

[The Matt]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

I read the blog, and I would say the author has succumbed to a myth which itself needs to be "debunked": the myth that there is such a thing as a "gay-oriented" Christian.

The second myth the author perpetuates is that the Bible differentiates between thought and action. "As long as I only think homosexual thoughts and don't engage in homosexual practice, I'm okay."

I'll address the second myth first. According to Mt 5:28, Scripture does not differentiate between thoughts and actions. If we allow sinful thoughts to develop into lusts, even if we don't act on them, the Bible says it's the same as if we had acted on them. That's why Paul said we are commanded to bring every thought "into captivity to the obedience of Christ" (2Cor 10:5).

Now, the second myth: there is such a thing as a "gay-oriented" Christian. Paul said:

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God" (1Cor 6:9-11 NASU).

According to Paul, regardless of our prior unrighteous "orientation", after becoming born again, we are no longer associated with those titles/labels/sinful states. We become "new creatures" in Christ:

“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;” (2 Cor 5:17-18 KJV)

As regards to our sexuality, there are only two "orientations" in Christ as a new creature: those who are disposed to heterosexual marriage, and those who are celibate (Mt 19, 1Cor 7, Heb 13:4, etc.). Again, all sexual thoughts which occur outside the context of heterosexual marriage- regardless of the subject matter- are to be "brought into captivity to the obedience of Christ" (2Cor 10:5).

So we see from Scripture that there is no such thing as a "gay-oriented" Christian. If a Christian- a "new creature" in Christ Jesus- experiences a particular temptation, they are to bring those thoughts into captivity to Christ, and we are promised that no temptation we encounter would be so strong as to bring us into bondage, but that God will give us the victory over it (1Cor 10:13).

Nicely spoken, thank you for this.

[deafdriscoll]

I offer no apology, i have no need to read some mans blog. I can get my answer from the word of God. God's opinion is the only one I am interested in. have a good day.

[Orthodoxy]

Originally Posted by deafdriscoll

I offer no apology, i have no need to read some mans blog. I can get my answer from the word of God. God's opinion is the only one I am interested in. have a good day.

I'm not following you. What do you mean by "apology"?

[deafdriscoll]

I have heard some christians offer an apology before saying the word of god.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

I read the blog, and I would say the author has succumbed to a myth which itself needs to be "debunked": the myth that there is such a thing as a "gay-oriented" Christian.

Hey Dave, I read your post. I disagree, if I understand you correctly. This response is not meant to debate you, but to discuss the issue. I’ll share my thoughts on your statements.

The second myth the author perpetuates is that the Bible differentiates between thought and action. "As long as I only think homosexual thoughts and don't engage in homosexual practice, I'm okay."

I'll address the second myth first. According to Mt 5:28, Scripture does not differentiate between thoughts and actions. If we allow sinful thoughts to develop into lusts, even if we don't act on them, the Bible says it's the same as if we had acted on them. That's why Paul said we are commanded to bring every thought "into captivity to the obedience of Christ" (2Cor 10:5).

First, the Bible does draw a clear distinction between thought and action. Notice that Jesus said that if a man “looks at a woman to lust after her” he has committed adultery…in his heart. Jesus didn’t say such a man has simply “committed adultery.” Jesus drew a distinction between the desire for sin in the heart and sin committed. Thus, if one has fallen pray to such thoughts, it is revealed that they have an adulterous heart. Not that they have committed adultery. Any man who has struggled in this area must be honest and tell himself, “I have an adulterous heart.” Then such a man must make provisions to guard his heart and his actions that he not commit adultery. Praise God, Jesus can change the heart if such a man surrenders it to Jesus.

However, with regards to the blog… the question isn’t so much “thoughts”. It’s “desires”. One’s flesh can have desires that one honestly finds deplorable. Many have killed themselves because they couldn’t “re-wire” their flesh from liking things that they found to be detestable. When it comes down to biology… for whatever reason (repeated exposure or genetics) the biological response of a gay person responds to same gender pheromones. Their bodies don’t respond to opposite gender pheromones. That means, being close to someone of the same gender “turns them on” biologically. It’s a “switch” in the flesh.

The point is… they may hate gay thoughts. They may fight them as a straight person might fight thoughts of lust for the opposite gender. But, like a straight person’s body responds to the opposite gender, their bodies respond the same gender.

With regards to 2 Corinthians 10:5, I think you are misinterpreting it. Paul isn’t talking about taking every thought we think captive as though we can control every thought that comes to mind. Paul is actually saying something entirely different. The following is a better rendering of the meaning behind the text:

2 Corinthians 10:5
English Standard Version (ESV)
5 We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,

2 Corinthians 10:5
Amplified Bible (AMP)
5[Inasmuch as we] refute arguments and theories and reasonings and every proud and lofty thing that sets itself up against the [true] knowledge of God; and we lead every thought and purpose away captive into the obedience of Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One),

Paul is talking about refuting arguments, opinions, theories, reasonings, philosophies, and thoughts, or proposals, and bringing them into obedience to Christ. Think, “culture war”… not "thought management".

A good example would be this: If they “proved” tomorrow that homosexuality was genetic and that they were in effect “born that way”…. We’d simply have to realize and inform them that their finding only confirms what is written in Scripture… they were indeed born sinners by nature. There is indeed no good thing in our wretched flesh. You see, while they will feel that their finding exonerates them from having to admit to sin… we can actually show how their findings confirm everything we’ve been telling them from the Word of God. In essence, we’ve torn down that theory, reasoning, opinion, argument, or thought and made it subject to Jesus Christ.

Now, the second myth: there is such a thing as a "gay-oriented" Christian. Paul said:

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God" (1Cor 6:9-11 NASU).

According to Paul, regardless of our prior unrighteous "orientation", after becoming born again, we are no longer associated with those titles/labels/sinful states. We become "new creatures" in Christ:

“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;” (2 Cor 5:17-18 KJV)

As regards to our sexuality, there are only two "orientations" in Christ as a new creature: those who are disposed to heterosexual marriage, and those who are celibate (Mt 19, 1Cor 7, Heb 13:4, etc.). Again, all sexual thoughts which occur outside the context of heterosexual marriage- regardless of the subject matter- are to be "brought into captivity to the obedience of Christ" (2Cor 10:5).

So you’re telling me that a true Christian cannot have sexual thoughts outside of marriage??? Single people don’t find themselves turned on, sexually attracted to, or interested in having sex with another person UNTIL AFTER they're married??? Lol I have to be misunderstanding you here. I say this because even in the Song of Solomon the lovers are infatuated with the thought of getting together BEFORE their wedding. It’s holy, a blessing, beautiful, and altogether lovely when two people are in love to the degree that they desire one another above all else… but yet wait until the wedding night. According to you those singles who are engaged and find their minds wondering to the idea of being intimate with their soon to be spouse are in sin, non-Christian, and need to suppress those healthy and blessed desires. I don’t buy the implications of your position, therefore I cannot accept it.

Now… back to the subject. Paul stated that many in the Corinthian church “were” homosexuals. And that now they are “new creatures”. First, you have a misunderstanding of regeneration and the process of sanctification. Being a “new creature” is because of regeneration, our union with God through the indwelling Holy Spirit. No creature exists like this and no one who receives the Holy Ghost ever existed like this prior. Therefore after receiving the Holy Ghost… they are new creatures. However, that is with regards to the “spirit” not the “soul” (mind). Throughout one’s life one must cultivate the mind of Christ over the carnal mind through prayer, meditation, teaching, and study. There are highs and there are lows. This is a process. The key is, as new creatures, carnal thoughts are against their inner nature. Thus, any carnal thoughts of this nature will indeed trouble them. Paul isn’t saying that after being born again of the Spirit they would never have another carnal thought or struggle with temptations. I find your reasoning a little flawed, again… if I’m understanding you correctly.

So we see from Scripture that there is no such thing as a "gay-oriented" Christian. If a Christian- a "new creature" in Christ Jesus- experiences a particular temptation, they are to bring those thoughts into captivity to Christ, and we are promised that no temptation we encounter would be so strong as to bring us into bondage, but that God will give us the victory over it (1Cor 10:13).

The point is, there are Christians with a proclivity, or disposition, towards homosexual sin. Just as there are Christians with a proclivity, or disposition, towards adultery, stealing, gluttony, cursing, anger, violence, etc. Why is it one who struggles with stealing (klepto), anger issues, or heterosexual lust are acknowledged as being Christians who are struggling with the sinful nature of the flesh… but we don’t acknowledge homosexual Christians as being simply Christians who struggle with the predisposition of homosexuality in their flesh???

Stop the hate and simply bring them to Christ. They may have temptations in this area for the rest of their lives. Some may even fall into sin several times throughout their Christian lives, only to get back up and try yet again to live for Jesus.

Human beings are sinful wretched creatures. And there are all kinds of sinners. Christians are sinners who have been forgiven and are now in union with God through the Holy Spirit based on Christ’s righteousness, not their own. And every Christian I have ever known has experienced continued temptation towards a given sin of some sort. Let’s not make this one out to be any different from any other. There is only ONE unforgivable sin. Let’s not start making this one out to be a second, when Scripture states no such thing.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by deafdriscoll

I have heard some christians offer an apology before saying the word of god.

Yes, many Christians are curtious and desire not to loose their audience before giving their message. Hense... apologetics. Others are... well... better suited to shock jock talk radio. lol

[Dordrecht]

There is something wrong with the name of this thread.
There is no such thing as a "Gay Christian".