Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie
No offense intended to anyone, but I am a bit skeptical about people claiming to pray "with groanings which cannot be uttered" while they are moaning and wailing etc. Not that wailing or moaning would be bad. But, by definition it is excluded from being the "groanings which cannot be uttered" - it IS in fact being uttered...
Is the verse not clearly saying that the "Spirit" makes the intercession?
Romans 8:26
King James Version (KJV)
26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. |
It depends on what the writer intended for us to interpret the word for "cannot be uttered" to mean.
"Uttered" as in "voiced" or "heard"? Or "uttered" as in "expressed in words"?
Not to "over-analyze" this... but here's the definition of utter:
ut·ter 1 (tr)
tr.v. ut·tered, ut·ter·ing, ut·ters
1. To send forth with the voice: uttered a cry.
2. To articulate (words); pronounce or speak. See Synonyms at vent1.
3. Law To put (counterfeit money, for example) into circulation.
4. To publish (a book, for example).
5. Obsolete To sell or deliver (merchandise) in trading.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/uttered
Go by definition #2 and your point has a problem.
Could Paul have been suggesting that these "groanings" couldn't be voiced through the mouths of humans and heard by human ears?
Or was he suggesting that these groanings couldn't be articulated in words spoken of by human language?
Taking a common sense approach, I'd say the later of those two options is the best interpretation. Why?
We can assume that the Holy Spirit is somewhere groaning on our behalf in a way that no man can hear or groan himself, and that Paul knew this by divine revelation (because how else would he know if nobody has heard these groanings before?).
I think that's a big leap to make. Especially in light of the fact that this is not even the foundation upon which those who travail base their experience off in scripture:
“Verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy. A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world. And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.”
John 16:20-22
There are examples of individuals in the Bible who travailed.
Paul travailed in
Galatians 4:19.
Hannah in the Old Testament in
1 Samuel 1:10.
Jesus travailed twice in the scripture. Once when Lazarus Died:
“Then when Mary was come where Jesus was, and saw him, she fell down at his feet, saying unto him, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died. When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her,
he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled, And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see. Jesus wept.”
John 11:32-44
Then of course there was the Garden of Gethsemane experience in
Luke 22:41-44.
Also consider:
"He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.”
Isaiah 53:11-12
This form of prayer is very scriptural. It serves a purpose and that purpose is explained fully in
Romans 8:26.
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