Women Bishop

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

I agree with you about issues of submission as far as a woman being submitted to her own husband. I am indeed submitted to mine as well as both of us being submitted to the Lord and it has brought me great joy. However I am in no way submitted to or under all men. The position of most people who espouse these teachings is that within the church all men are over all women all of the time and no man can learn anything from any woman. Do you agree with this?

Absolutely not... I am submitted to my husband first and foremost. My husband has the final say in my home. Paul in 1 Cor 11 dealt with this issue - it is Christ, the husband, and then the wife. If another man has an issue with me, he is to deal with my husband about it, not me. My husband is my covering, my protector, and he has the final say in our home, certainly not any other man. Eph. 3:18 "Wives, submit yourselves to your OWN husbands, as it is fit in the Lord."

When there are men trying to lead other women about (besides their own wife), that is a very, very serious issue, and could start another whole thread with that, and won't bother going deep into that issue now.

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

However there are single, divorced and widowed ladies as well as women who's callings are recognized by their own husbands. I can not in good conscience tell those women that if they follow their call they are somehow out of creations order or out of God's will. And yes this is an issue near and dear to my heart. My husband and I have for years taught seeker bible studies to mixed gender small groups. Don and I work different shifts which sometimes leaves one of us teaching alone... It was the fact that I would, in some instances, be teaching men that made me first study this out... Because above all things I do not ever want to be out of the will of God.

There are always the gray lines in every situation that cloud the water, and of course, this is one of them. However, Paul definitely mentioned that women who had no husbands were to teach the younger women. There is definitely a role in the church where the older ladies could be spending more of their time teaching, and helping younger ladies, don't you think? There are so many avenues of ministry, and they don't all include the "five fold ministry" to be sure. Teaching is one of those ministries Paul mentioned. You can be mightily used of God through teaching. I've heard many women teach, and it is a mighty tool God has used to edify the body of Christ. In your situation, you were doing the best thing possible in that situation, and God will bless your efforts!

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

However I do believe that we will see a woman a president before the church as a whole agrees that it is just OK with God for one to preach... For that I believe we will need to see Jesus come back.

That is a personal opinion to be sure, and one only God knows the answer to. I do strongly believe women are able to minister in many, many ways. However, usurping authority over men is not one of them. If teaching is done in such a way that it is teaching, and not preaching, I believe God is pleased with women teaching.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

There are always the gray lines in every situation that cloud the water, and of course, this is one of them. However, Paul definitely mentioned that women who had no husbands were to teach the younger women. There is definitely a role in the church where the older ladies could be spending more of their time teaching, and helping younger ladies, don't you think? There are so many avenues of ministry, and they don't all include the "five fold ministry" to be sure. Teaching is one of those ministries Paul mentioned. You can be mightily used of God through teaching. I've heard many women teach, and it is a mighty tool God has used to edify the body of Christ. In your situation, you were doing the best thing possible in that situation, and God will bless your efforts!

Definition of teacher:
1.a person who teaches or instructs, especially as a profession; instructor.

Definition of preaching:
1.the act or practice of a person who preaches.
2.the art of delivering sermons.

Definition of a Pastor:
1.a minister in charge of a church.
2.a person having spiritual care of a number of persons.

Definition of Bishop:
1.a person who supervises a number of local churches or a diocese, being in the Greek, Roman Catholic, Anglican, and other churches a member of the highest order of the ministry.

So from an Apostolic perspective we do not really have the most common definition of Bishop... unless that would be our district leaders, correct? And although I believe there are many qualified women who could do that job I'll just leave that alone and let the men have it.

So how will we define a person who teaches the public about religious or spiritual matters? One who is licensed, ordained, etc.? Jesus was called Rabbi (teacher) not preacher. Yet he taught individuals, small groups and large crowds (technically preaching?).

Even someone who teaches primary Sunday school may eventually find parents hungry for God... Will they give an answer or will they direct those people to their leader? I think the bible is clear about what the right response should be. I think I have given umpteen examples of women who were engaged in God's work with His blessing, the blessing of the Apostle Paul, and the approval of the church. If someone does not want to see it I can not force them but would ask them what the motive is for avoiding the truth. We can draw all the lines we want in black and white but REAL life happens in every shade of grey.

The ONLY real question here is if we believe that women can share God with other people as effectively as men, period. We can try to set perimeters all we want to, but life, yea even God, will challenge our boundaries every time. Did I set out to teach men? No, not really. Has the Lord enabled me to do a good work in it, yes, yes He has.

This entire argument is ridiculous because the fact is that there are women witnesses, teachers, preachers, missionaries, elders, overseers, etc. So what do we do when we say that they can not exist?... Is it wishful thinking, foolishness, judgement?

I pray daily that my granddaughters will have every opportunity in the Kingdom that has been allowed them by God and that no man (both genders included here) make any attempt to stop them.

Peace.

[KeptByTheWord]

We are all entitled to our own opinions, and indeed there are many "gray" areas of this discussion. I realize it is not cut and dry so to speak. However, God is the final judge of all, and it is to Him that each of us must answer, and the Bible does say "work out your own salvation" and to "be fully pursuaded in your own mind" and so on. Like you said in an earlier post, people use the Bible as a platform for just about any doctrine they want to espouse, including abortion as you mentioned in an earlier post, or perhaps another thread. You can find scripture to "support" just about anything you want to believe.

I think we can then both agree that submission to the husband/father figure in our life (as evidenced by the mighty women in the Bible) is proof enough of what is pleasing to God, and to what brings about the most amazing results. That is where I am coming from.

Women are mighty tools of evangelism and in teaching! The NT has plenty of proof for that. The only problem, as I see it, is that a woman should be careful that she does not ever undermine the authority of the male figure while doing the work of God, and instead support, and encourage him and work alongside him, and then truly, I do see great fruit that will come forth because of that understanding.

Peace to you too my sister

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

We are all entitled to our own opinions, and indeed there are many "gray" areas of this discussion. I realize it is not cut and dry so to speak.

If "HUSBAND of one wife" is a gray area, then everything in the bible is a gray area. How on earth could anything me more direct. A bishop MUST BE a HUSBAND on of wife. Hello!!

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

We are all entitled to our own opinions, and indeed there are many "gray" areas of this discussion. I realize it is not cut and dry so to speak. However, God is the final judge of all, and it is to Him that each of us must answer, and the Bible does say "work out your own salvation" and to "be fully pursuaded in your own mind" and so on. Like you said in an earlier post, people use the Bible as a platform for just about any doctrine they want to espouse, including abortion as you mentioned in an earlier post, or perhaps another thread. You can find scripture to "support" just about anything you want to believe.

I think we can then both agree that submission to the husband/father figure in our life (as evidenced by the mighty women in the Bible) is proof enough of what is pleasing to God, and to what brings about the most amazing results. That is where I am coming from.

Women are mighty tools of evangelism and in teaching! The NT has plenty of proof for that. The only problem, as I see it, is that a woman should be careful that she does not ever undermine the authority of the male figure while doing the work of God, and instead support, and encourage him and work alongside him, and then truly, I do see great fruit that will come forth because of that understanding.

Peace to you too my sister

Agreed!

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by seekerman

If "HUSBAND of one wife" is a gray area, then everything in the bible is a gray area. How on earth could anything me more direct. A bishop MUST BE a HUSBAND on of wife. Hello!!

Agreed that a bishop must be a husband of one wife. This is not a gray area for me! Please read my posts again, and see my position. Thanks

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Agreed that a bishop must be a husband of one wife. This is not a gray area for me! Please read my posts again, and see my position. Thanks

And I have also agreed with you... If he is a husband he must not have more than one wife... and if she is a wife she must not have more than one husband

[The Matt]

My opposition to that is I feel they must be married, or a widow or widower. *cringes*

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by The Matt

My opposition to that is I feel they must be married, or a widow or widower. *cringes*

Paul contended that it was better to stay single in order to do the work of the Lord without distractions... Unless one could not control their passions in which case they should marry so as to avoid falling into sin. Sorry.

1 Corinthians 7:8-9

Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

So actually single or widowed is the preferred state for ministry. Although there is another place in the bible where it is asserted that widows under the age of 60 should remarry.

[The Matt]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

Paul contended that it was better to stay single in order to do the work of the Lord without distractions... Unless one could not control their passions in which case they should marry so as to avoid falling into sin. Sorry.

1 Corinthians 7:8-9

Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

So actually single or widowed is the preferred state for ministry. Although there is another place in the bible where it is asserted that widows under the age of 60 should remarry.

Nooo don't be sorry. If you are able to show me in word my view isn't correct, I've nothing to do but check it out and form an updated opinion.