Evidence that Apostolic Truth Reached Britain By

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Le Penseur

My point is that you can't say "Apostolic Truth Reached..." if you're only talking about a piece of it. OP preachers have been known to trumpet that the gates of hell did not prevail against the truth (the 3-step doctrine) and there has always been "a remnant" that taught it all along. The challenge is proving it historically. You might find pockets of Sabellianism, or other groups who may have spoken in tongues, but I have yet to see someone point to groups all through history that taught and practiced both, and they were both vital components of their soteriology.

For the record, the bible does not say "against the truth". It says against the church.

Also "hell" refers to the grave, not to the dark forces of satan as depicted in catholic fable.

His point was that hell or the grave has no hold over the church. It has nothing to do with a preserved doctrine passed on from generation to generation

[Falla39]

Is it possible that we can keep looking so far back that we actually can get "off track", or sidetracked? We can be riding on a train, bus or an automobile and as we go forward, we lose sight of what we left behind. For example, there are those who trace their roots, etc., back for generations. Then there are those who could not care less about who or where they came from.

I have written many things about our family in the several years I have been on FCF, NFCF and AFF. If someone has followed my writings (records) of my family, they know quite a bit about me today. Then there may be those who never found it worth the time or effort to listen to a word I wrote.

There are things I have learned from being trained up in an Apostolic Pentecostal home. We went to school to get a basic education. But in the home and church we were taught to love the Word of God and the words contained in it. We had examples of people in our lives that had received an experience with God and we knew by the time we were very old, that we too should receive the Spirit of God. Our parents were diligent in teaching we eleven siblings the Word of God. They also, just as Grandma, her sister, Aunt Lucy, and others, set godly examples before us in daily living.

What is important to me is that I can trace my roots to my paternal grandmother, who, a devout, Bible-reading, praying Methodist, lay on her deathbed, in 1926. A 28 yr old, wife, and mother of three, lay dying of typhoid fever. The doctor was there, my grandfather and my late father, who was 8 yrs old at the time. I did not witness this, but my father did. I also heard the story told to me by my late grandmother. The doctor told her husband (Dad heard it), "Tom, Lizzie's dying. See the blue on her feet and legs!". As she lay there dying, she breathed a sincere prayer, "LORD, if you would see fit, let (allow, permit) me to live to raise my three children!". She lapsed into a coma, to awaken the next evening. Her fever had broke, she was hungry and thirsty. GOD had heard and answered my dear grandmother's prayer. She not only lived to raise her three children, but lived to hold my firstborn, plus her firstborn. That would be my first child and her firstborn son. August 1983. Grandma died Oct.1984, just 20 days before her 87th birthday.

A few years later (7 yrs), the message of Pentecost came their way. It was the message Peter preached on the day of Pentecost. Acts 2. Although a denominal church member for 21 yrs, she searched out this new (to her) teaching, found it to be in the Word of God, believed and obeyed it, along with her eldest son, who by now, was between 14 and15 yrs old. He was my late father.

So why should I cloud my mind with everything and everybody through the centuries since that first century. I can trace my own family from the time that the message of hope and truth came to Grandma, Dad and Mom, etc., we eleven siblings,(who every one without exception, received the Holy Ghost, was baptized in Jesus Name and received the Holy Ghost, speaking with other tongues as the Spirit gave the utterance. Our six adult children, with each of their original spouses, and their children (those old enough to believe) have also received this same experience that Grandma received in 1933. We are to the fifth generation now, with most in every generation receiving this same experience. The sixth generation has begun, but she's only two yrs old, but in June, there will be another of my great grandchildren. As one generation lies down, another generation arises. Some lines or generations end, because they have no one to replace them.

The Holy Ghost still gives POWER to OVERCOME sin, and to BECOME WITNESSES. Could it be while some are distracted with things that don't matter, they could and should be witnessing about what Jesus said would make them HIS WITNESSES! I have enough PROOF that agrees with that FIRST CENTURY CHURCH to know that I don't have to know every detail of everything accomplished or not accomplished since then.

Within ourselves we have nothing to boast of! All GLORY, PRAISE and HONOR goes to the ONE who made it possible!

Phil. 3: 13,14
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Falla39

[Jay]

The problem that we have with the historical record is that it is woefully incomplete. Many times the people who left written records that have been passed on to posterity are often the ones who were performing persecutions. Thus many times the only records only allow for certain deductions.

Further, the only reason that we have this debate is that we have had perversions of Christianity around for since the year 200. The fact is that most of the 'reformers' never truly restored Biblical Christianity. Nor did those who came after them. In Scripture there is never any discussion of one vs three steps in salvation. There is only repentance, baptism in Jesus name, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost. In the United States and Candada, we have a time lag because of the false doctrines that need to be untangled. Many people wash out when they can not accept the truth. Thus what should be a single experience is broken into three.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Jay

The problem that we have with the historical record is that it is woefully incomplete. Many times the people who left written records that have been passed on to posterity are often the ones who were performing persecutions. Thus many times the only records only allow for certain deductions.

Further, the only reason that we have this debate is that we have had perversions of Christianity around for since the year 200. The fact is that most of the 'reformers' never truly restored Biblical Christianity. Nor did those who came after them. In Scripture there is never any discussion of one vs three steps in salvation. There is only repentance, baptism in Jesus name, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost. In the United States and Candada, we have a time lag because of the false doctrines that need to be untangled. Many people wash out when they can not accept the truth. Thus what should be a single experience is broken into three.

Bro. Jay, I am 72 yrs, and I had never heard the term 1-step vs 3-step until I saw it on the forum. I had heard the argument concerning the trinity doctrine. But as you said,
Repentance, Baptism in Jesus Name and the infilling of the
Holy Ghost, evidenced by speaking in other tongues as the
Spirit gives the utterance, was and is the scriptural plan of salvation. I believe it is the only plan of salvation. Jesus Christ the same, yesterday and today and forever.

Falla39

[Jay]

Originally Posted by Falla39

Bro. Jay, I am 72 yrs, and I had never heard the term 1-step vs 3-step until I saw it on the forum. I had heard the argument concerning the trinity doctrine. But as you said,
Repentance, Baptism in Jesus Name and the infilling of the
Holy Ghost, evidenced by speaking in other tongues as the
Spirit gives the utterance, was and is the scriptural plan of salvation. I believe it is the only plan of salvation. Jesus Christ the same, yesterday and today and forever.

Falla39

I never heard about the different views of this either. I was always taught that you just obeyed Acts 2:38 and that was the only way. I had never heard any other 'Pentecostal' advocate any other formula. It was what is there in Scripture, and if people do not wish to believe it, or wish to take time to acheive full obedience to Scripture, then there is nothing that I can do about that except to pray for them.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Falla39

Bro. Jay, I am 72 yrs, and I had never heard the term 1-step vs 3-step until I saw it on the forum. I had heard the argument concerning the trinity doctrine. But as you said,
Repentance, Baptism in Jesus Name and the infilling of the
Holy Ghost, evidenced by speaking in other tongues as the
Spirit gives the utterance, was and is the scriptural plan of salvation. I believe it is the only plan of salvation. Jesus Christ the same, yesterday and today and forever.

Falla39

The bolded is as big of an issue (or much bigger) than the OP's give when saying that the word "trinity" is not in the Bible. And yes, I've heard people "add" that phrase when "quoting" Acts 2:38.

[Falla39]

Acts 2:1-4

1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

The Spirit has come inside when they began to speak with other tongues, and the Spirit is giving the utterance.

Falla39

[Jay]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

The bolded is as big of an issue (or much bigger) than the OP's give when saying that the word "trinity" is not in the Bible. And yes, I've heard people "add" that phrase when "quoting" Acts 2:38.

Sadly I must disagree with you. It is only because others have chosen to make it an issue. However, if you get very many Christians who travel out of the country doing church work, they say that they see many people who will start speaking in tongues in other places. I listen to a preacher on the radio who has seen this many times. They are just less accepting of it here in the United States. However, this is due to pride and unbelief neither of which will enter into the kingdom of heaven.

[houston]

Pay attn. Jay,

RW isn't against tongues. He doesn't see the initial evidence doctrine in the Bible.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

...


I don't know the man from Adam, but he has all these credentials yet I am supposed to dismiss his opinion because a few message board folks don't like his studies at seu? You folks talk about him like he got his bachelors from the University of Phoenix online and then did all his grad studies at some where like JCM.

You should read the relevant threads thoroughly and then get back to us. From beginning to end. Really.