Planned Parenthood Plans 40 Days of Prayer (L)

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

There are literally thousands of doctors who do not believe in murder/abortion under any circumstances.

Here is the position statement of AAPLOG Prolife OBGYNS

Abortion is the purposeful killing of the unborn in the termination of a pregnancy. AAPLOG opposes abortion. When extreme medical emergencies that threaten the life of the mother arise (chorioamnionitis or HELLP syndrome could be examples), AAPLOG believes in “treatment to save the mother’s life,” including premature delivery if that is indicated — obviously with the patient’s informed consent. This is NOT “abortion to save the mother’s life.” We are treating two patients, the mother and the baby, and every reasonable attempt to save the baby’s life would also be a part of our medical intervention. We acknowledge that, in some such instances, the baby would be too premature to survive.

http://www.aaplog.org/

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

I am not against abortion in all circumstances. Maybe because I have seen many young girls whose pregnancy was the product of incest. Girls as young as age 11, pregnant by fathers, uncles and older brothers. I do not think that on top of the trauma of having been sexually molested or assaulted these girls or young women should also have to undergo an unwanted pregnancy. Adding shame to their situation by saying that they commit murder, is cruel.

In the case of the life or health of the mother being at risk. PIH, DIC, eclampsia, severe medical conditions such as IDDM that are exacerbated by pregnancy or where the mother has to choose between not taking needed medication for her own medical condition or giving birth to a damaged baby from medication side effects as in cancer requiring chemotherapy or some severe seizure disorders, etc.

And lastly for genetic disorders or physical anomalies of the fetus that are incomparable with life such as anencephaly or severe heart defects.. To make a woman endure 9 months of pregnancy, explaining and reexplaining how her baby will die when born followed by the birth and death of the baby are just too much for most families.

To say that it is NEVER appropriate for a pregnancy to be terminated is just farther than I can go. I believe that a medical board could review each case and decide if termination is appropriate. It is commonly done for other controversial medical treatments.

However I in NO way support abortion on demand.

Very difficult circumstances to be sure, but as noted in the earlier post, thousands of OBGYNS disagree that abortion is ever a good thing.

[AreYouReady?]

You bring up valid issues T2W. The very fact that we have a society where people cannot contain themselves morally and sexually and they perpetrate upon innocent victims is incomprehensible. I would say that for very young victims...this would truly be considered a medical issue. Not a moral issue on the part of the young victim.

The medical establishment has always taken care of women and victims who have medical issues during pregnancy. It just was not discussed, nor advertised such as it is now. They were true medical conditions and people should understand that in these cases, it is none of our business anymore than our medical issues are anybody else's business.

Planned Parenthood wants to make "pro-choice" a "reproductive health" issue when the root issue from all of this comes from sexual depravity.

Legalizing abortion and legitimatizing it as an "industry" will never be right in the eyes of God no matter how people try to slice it.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Very difficult circumstances to be sure, but as noted in the earlier post, thousands of OBGYNS disagree that abortion is ever a good thing.

I absolutely respect that. I do not think that any provider should ever have to preform any procedure that they are uncomfortable with. Every doctor is first and foremost a person who has the right to not violate their conscience.

None of the nine doctors I work for will preform an elective termination. Some will refer to another provider and some will not even give a referral. Some nurses will give a phone number. I transfer calls regarding questions about termination to them. However once a patient has had a termination and comes back in we all just have to put it behind us.

[AreYouReady?]

Has anybody found the exact wording of the Affordable Health Care Act? I understand it has 2700 pages so it will be difficult to find all the issues many people have.

There has been some concern in conservative circles that this Act will make it a requirement for physicians to treat all abortion wants/demands as a medical reproductive health issue regardless of personal morals.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

You bring up valid issues T2W. The very fact that we have a society where people cannot contain themselves morally and sexually and they perpetrate upon innocent victims is incomprehensible. I would say that for very young victims...this would truly be considered a medical issue. Not a moral issue on the part of the young victim.

The medical establishment has always taken care of women and victims who have medical issues during pregnancy. It just was not discussed, nor advertised such as it is now. They were true medical conditions and people should understand that in these cases, it is none of our business anymore than our medical issues are anybody else's business.

Planned Parenthood wants to make "pro-choice" a "reproductive health" issue when the root issue from all of this comes from sexual depravity.

Legalizing abortion and legitimatizing it as an "industry" will never be right in the eyes of God no matter how people try to slice it.

Agreed.

[Titus2woman]

Maybe I said agreed too quickly... So here goes. First of all let's get some terminology in place. An abortion is loss of pregnancy. It is the medical term for miscarriage. It happens as an act of God and has nothing to do with human intervention. What we are actually talking about here is elective termination of pregnancy.

Now for some facts. When one says that death rates for women are higher for elective TOP vs childbirth the stats are skewed and here is how.Often ALL causes of death in women who die up to one year after TOP are counted not just complication of the procedure, so STIs, suicide, homicide, accident, etc.

I work for nine gynecologists. You would be very surprised at who has terminations and who takes heir daughters for terminations. I will just say this; when people are part of communities where there is a lot of shame about unwed pregnancy there is a lot of extra pressure to find a way to make the 'problem' go away without any evidence. That includes the church. 93% of women obtaining an elective TOP identify themselves as Christian with 65% Protestant and 28% Catholic.

One very sad situation that I was made aware of was a family in the church whose 11 year old daughter was pregnant by her paternal uncle. He had stayed with his brother for his first semester in college and had molested his niece several times during his stay. I know his parents, he was raised in a good Christian home and has always seemed a decent kid, why he did something so horrible I do not know. Maybe the girl was even somewhat culpable... Although I do not believe an 11 year old can consent maybe this 19 year old boy did not share my belief. This family elected TOP to avoid ruining everything in their lives that mattered to them. How the Lord will heal them, only He knows. Time seems to be healing that family but would it be so if they had been publically shamed?

Everything is not always cut and dried. Women keep children who lead tortured lives so that they can collect a welfare check and do dope. These kids grow up to be killers who sometimes take many lives. Are their situations where it is better is someone is never born? Would it have been better if Hitler were never born?

And then there is my issue of not trying to conform Sinners to the moral standards of those who have the Spirit of God living in them. Should they really be just like us?

Lots to think about....

[Hoovie]

Taking one life to make others comfortable is never Ok.

Is there a comparison being made here between welfare recipients and Hitler?

And a society that allows child sacrifice because it's kewl with their moral code?

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Taking one life to make others comfortable is never Ok.

Is there a comparison being made here between welfare recipients and Hitler?

And a society that allows child sacrifice because it's kewl with their moral code?

The reason I have framed most of what I have said as questions is because I do not have all the answers but I think that sometimes we tend to simplify as if we do... How would you deal with your 11 year old daughter being pregnant by your younger, nice decent kid brother?

Your wife with a pregnancy that endangered her health and possibly her life but was too early to be viable?

A routine ultrasound revealing that the fetus you were carrying had no brain and while it would grow inside your body like a parasite for 9 months and be born it would never live beyond an hour?

My point is that these things are real situations that happen to real people every day. I meet some of these people.

So far I think I think that I believe that:

1. TOP on demand is morally wrong and should be illegal.
2. There should be some allowable exceptions and we may never agree on what they are.
3. The likelihood that current law will ever be repealed or even altered is almost nil for a lot of reasons the biggest one is that the majority of people want it to be legal even if they find it sickening.

And no, no comparison between welfare recipients and Hitler... My questions just kind of ran together... Do you believe it would have been better if Hitler were never born? And is it better for a woman to have and keep a child that she will never love or give a decent chance at life for selfish reasons than to terminate it?

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

The reason I have framed most of what I have said as questions is because I do not have all the answers but I think that sometimes we tend to simplify as if we do... How would you deal with your 11 year old daughter being pregnant by your younger, nice decent kid brother?

Your wife with a pregnancy that endangered her health and possibly her life but was too early to be viable?

A routine ultrasound revealing that the fetus you were carrying had no brain and while it would grow inside your body like a parasite for 9 months and be born it would never live beyond an hour?

My point is that these things are real situations that happen to real people every day. I meet some of these people.

So far I think I think that I believe that:

1. TOP on demand is morally wrong and should be illegal.
2. There should be some allowable exceptions and we may never agree on what they are.
3. The likelihood that current law will ever be repealed or even altered is almost nil for a lot of reasons the biggest one is that the majority of people want it to be legal even if they find it sickening.

And no, no comparison between welfare recipients and Hitler... My questions just kind of ran together... Do you believe it would have been better if Hitler were never born? And is it better for a woman to have and keep a child that she will never love or give a decent chance at life for selfish reasons than to terminate it?

How do you deal with a young girl getting pregnant? I am not a doctor, but I would assume one would start with a game plan to treat both patients.

Same with a mother who is in danger. Sometimes extended hospitalization is required to ensure the best possible outcome.

The "no brain" scenario may be somewhat different. If it is simply a tumor or mass then it is treated as such. However, there are many, many cases where the parents were told the baby would not live and they did. Some going on to lead productive and even normal lives. I would contact a team of doctors who do not believe in abortion and come up with a plan.

I think I can answer the Hitler question better as soon as you show you had evidence while he was in the womb that he would later kill millions.

Better to keep a child the mother will not love? No. That child is better to be adopted into a two parent home where he will be loved. This is the reality of many. Adoption works without killing.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

How do you deal with a young girl getting pregnant? I am not a doctor, but I would assume one would start with a game plan to treat both patients.

Same with a mother who is in danger. Sometimes extended hospitalization is required to ensure the best possible outcome.

The "no brain" scenario may be somewhat different. If it is simply a tumor or mass then it is treated as such. However, there are many, many cases where the parents were told the baby would not live and they did. Some going on to lead productive and even normal lives. I would contact a team of doctors who do not believe in abortion and come up with a plan.

I think I can answer the Hitler question better as soon as you show you had evidence while he was in the womb that he would later kill millions.

Better to keep a child the mother will not love? No. That child is better to be adopted into a two parent home where he will be loved. This is the reality of many. Adoption works without killing.

Anencephaly is not a mistake on sono, etc. It is the complete absence of a brain. It has happened to three women in this practice since I've been here. So you are answering a question I did not ask. My question is about a baby with no chance at life at all.

About a woman whoes life is at risk... we keep saying 'doctors who don't believe in abortion'... but these doctors do believe in delivering a fetus that has no chance of viability. Methods slightly different, outcome the same. The biggest difference is that the mother has to labor or have a C-section to deliver the fetus whole, where a D&E allows a generally safer procedure for the mother.

And lastly, how many of your children are adopted? I have raised two children who were not my own. Don and I plan to adopt and have started the process. There are, right this minute over 1.500 children available for adoption in the Houston area, thousands in the US. Until you take in a few of these broken children and figure out what to do with the rest of them let's not go all fuzzy with the 'adoption option' which is really only an option for healthy white infants.