Planned Parenthood Plans 40 Days of Prayer (L)

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

You forgot to add thread nazis.

and lawyers; don't forget lawyers...

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Considering you have not attempted to explain why he thinks that passage is not about abortion the most I can do is affirm that it is and point out a few tidbits about how the language used in the passage shows it is about the womans private parts and womb.

Listen frog....I don't hop when you say jump...get that?

I will answer when I get ready.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Listen frog....I don't hop when you say jump...get that?

I will answer when I get ready.

I didn't say you had to jump at all. All I did was explain why I couldn't defend that numbers 5 is about abortion without knowing what argument is being used to suggest it isn't. If you don't want to explain why it isn't about abortion then by all means don't.

[bbyrd009]

Man, this is what compromise brings. Yikes.
We can't live w/o it, and God does not live with it.

[AreYouReady?]

I don't know what translation Aquila posted here.

But let's go back to the KJV and compare translations:
Numbers 5:11-31

¶And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

12 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him,
13 And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner;
14 And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled:
15 Then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil upon it, nor put frankincense thereon; for it is an offering of jealousy, an offering of memorial, bringing iniquity to remembrance.
16 And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the LORD:
17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water:
18 And the priest shall set the woman before the LORD, and uncover the woman's head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which is the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse:
19 And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse:
20 But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband:
21 Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell;
22 And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen.
23 And the priest shall write these curses in a book, and he shall blot them out with the bitter water:
24 And he shall cause the woman to drink the bitter water that causeth the curse: and the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter.
25 Then the priest shall take the jealousy offering out of the woman's hand, and shall wave the offering before the LORD, and offer it upon the altar:
26 And the priest shall take an handful of the offering, even the memorial thereof, and burn it upon the altar, and afterward shall cause the woman to drink the water.
27 And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people.
28 And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed.
29 This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled;
30 Or when the spirit of jealousy cometh upon him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before the LORD, and the priest shall execute upon her all this law.
31 Then shall the man be guiltless from iniquity, and this woman shall bear her iniquity.


to be continued....

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I didn't say you had to jump at all. All I did was explain why I couldn't defend that numbers 5 is about abortion without knowing what argument is being used to suggest it isn't. If you don't want to explain why it isn't about abortion then by all means don't.

Frog...I do have other obligations besides this forum. I will explain my position when I can do my research. You are a tricky fella. You almost use sorcery tactics when you want to blitzkrieg a post or a thread. I am well aware of your methods.

[AreYouReady?]

Now, lets use the old 1599 Geneva Bible translation. Very accurate because it is translated directly from the Hebrew text. I am going to, for the first few words place in parenthesis the modern word because many do not know old english as this is written in. Back when this was translated, some of the English letters were not in use yet, such as the "J". The "U" used to be "v" and the "V" used to be "U".

Numbers 5:11-31
11 And the Lord spake vnto (unto) Moses, saying,
12 Speake vnto (unto) the children of Israel, and say vnto (unto) them, If any mans wife turne to euill (evil), and commit a trespasse against him,
13 So that an other man lie with her fleshly, and it bee hid from the eyes of her husband, and kept close, and yet she be defiled, and there be no witnesse against her, neither she taken with the maner,
14 If he be moued (moved) with a ielous (jealous) minde (mind), so that he is ielous (jealous) ouer (over) his wife, which is defiled, or if he hate (have) a ielous (jealous) minde (mind), so that he is ielous (jealous) ouer (over) his wife, which is not defiled,
15 Then shall the man bring his wife to the Priest, and bring her offering with her, the tenth part of an Ephah of barly meale (meal), but he shall not power (pour) oyle (oil) vpon (upon) it, nor put incense thereon: for it is an offring of ielousie (jealousy), an offring for a remembrance, calling the sinne to minde:
16 And the Priest shall bring her, and set her before the Lord.
17 Then the Priest shall take the holy water in an earthen vessel, and of the dust that is in the floore of the Tabernacle, euen (even) the Priest shall take it and put it into the water.
18 After, the Priest shall set the woman before the Lord, and vncouer (uncover) the womans head, and put the offring of the memorial in her hands: it is the ielousie (jealousy) offering, and the Priest shall haue (have)bitter and cursed water in his hand,
19 And the Priest shall charge her by an othe (oath), and say vnto the woman, If no man haue lien (lain)with thee, neither thou hast turned to vncleannesse (uncleanness) from thine husband, be free from this bitter and cursed water.
20 But if thou hast turned from thine husband, and so art defiled, and some man hath lyen (lie)with thee beside thine husband,
21 (Then the Priest shall charge the woman with an othe of cursing, and the Priest shall say vnto the woman) The Lord make thee to be accursed, and detestable for the othe among thy people, and the Lord cause thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell:
22 And that this cursed water may goe into thy bowels, to cause thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot. Then the woman shall answere, Amen, Amen.
23 After, the Priest shall write these curses in a booke, and shall blot them out with the bitter water,
24 And shall cause the woman to drinke ye bitter and cursed water, and the cursed water, turned into bitternesse, shall enter into her.
25 Then the Priest shall take the ielousie offring out of the womans hand, and shall shake the offring before the Lord, and offer it vpon ye altar.
26 And the Priest shall take an handfull of the offring for a memorial thereof, and burne it vpon the altar, and afterwarde make the woman drinke the water.
27 When yee haue made her drinke the water, (if she bee defiled and haue trespassed against her husband) then shall the cursed water, turned into bitternesse, enter into her, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot, and the woman shall be accursed among her people.
28 But if the woman bee not defiled, but bee cleane, she shalbe free and shall conceiue and beare.
29 This is the law of ielousie, when a wife turneth from her husband and is defiled,
30 Or when a man is moued with a ielous minde being ielous ouer his wife then shall he bring the woman before the Lord, and the Priest shall do to her according to al this lawe,
31 And the man shalbe free from sinne, but this woman shall beare her iniquitie (iniquity) .

[AreYouReady?]

This post now comes from my husband and I agree with his study and research in the meaning of these scriptures. None of them say anything about the "fruit of the womb" dying. To try to justify abortion by these scriptures is using these scriptures out of context.

These scriptures are to prove whether a husband's suspicion of adultery is true or not true.

Looking up the word "thigh" from Strongs Concordance, it will give all the scriptures that comes from the hebrew root word. In this case it is number 3409.

Thigh, from the Strongs Concordance, number 3409 comes from the hebrew root word: yarek yaw-rake' from an unused root meaning to be soft; the thigh (from its fleshy softness); by euphem. the generative parts; figuratively, a shank, flank, side:--X body, loins, shaft, side, thigh.

Look up these scriptures. They all use the word thigh and it all comes from the same hebrew root word--yarek, says Strong's Concordance.

Genesis 24:2, 24:9, 32:25(x2), 32:1, 32:32 (x2) 47:29,
Judges 3:16, 3:21, 15:8
Psalms 45:3
Song of Solomon 3:8

All these other scriptures besides Numbers 5:21, 5:22 and 5:27 uses the same translation of thigh in Strongs 3409. Consider these scriptures in the context of your euphemism. I will place your word: womb in parenthesis next to the correct word: thigh

And Abraham said unto his eldest servant of his house, that ruled over all that he had, Put, I pray thee, thy hand under my thigh: (womb?)
(Genesis 24:2)

Does Abraham have a womb?

And the servant put his hand under the thigh (womb?) of Abraham his master, and sware to him concerning that matter.
(Genesis 24:9)


And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh(your word: womb); and the hollow of Jacob's thigh(womb?) was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
(Genesis 32:25)


And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh(womb?).
(Genesis 32:31)

Therefore the children of Israel eat not of the sinew which shrank, which is upon the hollow of the thigh(womb?), unto this day: because he touched the hollow of Jacob's thigh(womb?) in the sinew that shrank.
(Genesis 32:32)


But Ehud made him a dagger which had two edges, of a cubit length; and he did gird it under his raiment upon his right thigh(womb?).
(Judges 3:16)

And Ehud put forth his left hand, and took the dagger from his right thigh(womb?), and thrust it into his belly:
(Judges 3:21)

And he smote them hip and thigh(womb?) with a great slaughter: and he went down and dwelt in the top of the rock Etam.
(Judges 15:8)

Gird thy sword upon thy thigh(womb?), O most mighty, with thy glory and thy majesty.
(Psalms 45:3)


They all hold swords, being expert in war: every man hath his sword upon his thigh(womb?) because of fear in the night.
(Song of Solomon 3:8)

Do all these males have wombs? In light of the Strong's word translation, it is easy to see that the word "womb" is totally inaccurate in all these scriptures as well as in Numbers. The word "thigh" in every one of these scriptures were taken from the same Hebrew word yarek (number 3409) upon translation. To use the word "womb" is an inaccurate translation.

Don't like what we say about this? Take it up with the Scholars of Strong's Concordance.

Conclusion: Considering that all these scriptures use the root word yarek meaning thigh from 3409, I would say that the KJV is correct in it's translation over any other translation that wants to use the word "womb". Logically speaking, the priest would have to have an outward sign to know if she is an adulteress or not. Her abdomen will swell and her thighs will rot. These will be visible signs. Again, these verses of scripture is for suspicion of jealousy of adultery. Not justification for today's practice of abortion.

[Hoovie]

Abortion=Feticide=Neonaticide=Homicide=Murder

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

This post now comes from my husband and I agree with his study and research in the meaning of these scriptures. None of them say anything about the "fruit of the womb" dying. To try to justify abortion by these scriptures is using these scriptures out of context.

These scriptures are to prove whether a husband's suspicion of adultery is true or not true.

Looking up the word "thigh" from Strongs Concordance, it will give all the scriptures that comes from the hebrew root word. In this case it is number 3409.

Thigh, from the Strongs Concordance, number 3409 comes from the hebrew root word: yarek yaw-rake' from an unused root meaning to be soft; the thigh (from its fleshy softness); by euphem. the generative parts; figuratively, a shank, flank, side:--X body, loins, shaft, side, thigh.

Look up these scriptures. They all use the word thigh and it all comes from the same hebrew root word--yarek, says Strong's Concordance.

Genesis 24:2, 24:9, 32:25(x2), 32:1, 32:32 (x2) 47:29,
Judges 3:16, 3:21, 15:8
Psalms 45:3
Song of Solomon 3:8

All these other scriptures besides Numbers 5:21, 5:22 and 5:27 uses the same translation of thigh in Strongs 3409. Consider these scriptures in the context of your euphemism. I will place your word: womb in parenthesis next to the correct word: thigh

And Abraham said unto his eldest servant of his house, that ruled over all that he had, Put, I pray thee, thy hand under my thigh: (womb?)
(Genesis 24:2)

Does Abraham have a womb?

And the servant put his hand under the thigh (womb?) of Abraham his master, and sware to him concerning that matter.
(Genesis 24:9)


And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh(your word: womb); and the hollow of Jacob's thigh(womb?) was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
(Genesis 32:25)


And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh(womb?).
(Genesis 32:31)

Therefore the children of Israel eat not of the sinew which shrank, which is upon the hollow of the thigh(womb?), unto this day: because he touched the hollow of Jacob's thigh(womb?) in the sinew that shrank.
(Genesis 32:32)


But Ehud made him a dagger which had two edges, of a cubit length; and he did gird it under his raiment upon his right thigh(womb?).
(Judges 3:16)

And Ehud put forth his left hand, and took the dagger from his right thigh(womb?), and thrust it into his belly:
(Judges 3:21)

And he smote them hip and thigh(womb?) with a great slaughter: and he went down and dwelt in the top of the rock Etam.
(Judges 15:8)

Gird thy sword upon thy thigh(womb?), O most mighty, with thy glory and thy majesty.
(Psalms 45:3)


They all hold swords, being expert in war: every man hath his sword upon his thigh(womb?) because of fear in the night.
(Song of Solomon 3:8)

Do all these males have wombs? In light of the Strong's word translation, it is easy to see that the word "womb" is totally inaccurate in all these scriptures as well as in Numbers. The word "thigh" in every one of these scriptures were taken from the same Hebrew word yarek (number 3409) upon translation. To use the word "womb" is an inaccurate translation.

Don't like what we say about this? Take it up with the Scholars of Strong's Concordance.

Conclusion: Considering that all these scriptures use the root word yarek meaning thigh from 3409, I would say that the KJV is correct in it's translation over any other translation that wants to use the word "womb". Logically speaking, the priest would have to have an outward sign to know if she is an adulteress or not. Her abdomen will swell and her thighs will rot. These will be visible signs. Again, these verses of scripture is for suspicion of jealousy of adultery. Not justification for today's practice of abortion.

I never said nor implied that thigh = womb. I said that it was a euphanism for her female parts... surely you won't make me spell that out any clearer here on the forum?

EDIT: While that wasn't in my earlier thoughts it may very well be the case. I may retract this statement so don't fret over it too much yet...