Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad?

[Jay]

The issue is not just 'gay marriage', but the desire for the endorsement, approval, and celebration of their lifestyle by the community at large. For this reason, they will not stop once they have gay marriage but will seek to have the approval of any and all houses of worship. It will eventually be mandated that if you wish to perform marriage ceremonies for heterosexual couples, then you must also provide the same service for homosexual couples. This is already begun here in the States. Hutchinson, KS is proof of this. The homosexual lobby has recently stated that merely tolerating or approving of homosexuality is blatant homophobia.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jay

The issue is not just 'gay marriage', but the desire for the endorsement, approval, and celebration of their lifestyle by the community at large. For this reason, they will not stop once they have gay marriage but will seek to have the approval of any and all houses of worship. It will eventually be mandated that if you wish to perform marriage ceremonies for heterosexual couples, then you must also provide the same service for homosexual couples. This is already begun here in the States. Hutchinson, KS is proof of this. The homosexual lobby has recently stated that merely tolerating or approving of homosexuality is blatant homophobia.

I know a local Catholic church that will not perform a marriage unless both are confirmed. A local Lutheran church will not marry anyone unless they are at least a member in good standing for six months. Churches are private organizations that are free to set their own standards with regards to marriage. I say... if they try to force a church to perform a gay wedding... protest. We seem to sit here thinking that if they pass a law we have to obey it. We DON'T. The gay lobby has the floor because they appear to be persecuted. We need to get some GUTS. If they try to do that... PROTEST BIG TIME. Perhaps even FLIP SOME TABLES in City Hall. Accept that a few Christians might have to go to jail for disrupting the peace or property damage. I'd also say, don't harm anyone physically. But get radical.

I just dare them to try to force churches to peform a ceremony they don't believe in. It could also help us form aliances with other churches, mosques, and synagogues that don't agree with forcing houses of worship to perform gay marriages. I think it would be good for the church... we'd have headlines everywhere... and in them... we'd be the one's being forced into something we don't believe in.

[aegsm76]

jf - just as a personal aside, will you and/or the church you attend teach/preach against the homosexual lifestyle, if gay marriage is sanctioned, legally?

[houston]

I am too stupid to understand politics. Anyway, I have a question.

Why are those of you who are for separation of church and state trying to control the state? Worse case scenario and the state mandates that you perform SSM, Christians should stop obtaining marriage licences and go common law.

[Jay]

Originally Posted by houston

I am too stupid to understand politics. Anyway, I have a question.

Why are those of you who are for separation of church and state trying to control the state? Worse case scenario and the state mandates that you perform SSM, Christians should stop obtaining marriage licences and go common law.

You fail to understand the point. We do not wish to control the state, but to force the state to abide by the rule of law (the Constitution). The state has been encroaching on our personal and religious freedoms for more than 100 years, and it is time that we draw the line somewhere. Otherwise, where will we be in another 5 years?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jay

You fail to understand the point. We do not wish to control the state, but to force the state to abide by the rule of law (the Constitution). The state has been encroaching on our personal and religious freedoms for more than 100 years, and it is time that we draw the line somewhere. Otherwise, where will we be in another 5 years?

You mean Section 1 in the 14th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States?

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Hmmm...

As an American, I believe that liberty is sacred... even if men abuse said liberty. In a free country... a man and woman who are divorcees and have no biblical right to marry can marry. In a free country... a person can purchase various forms of entertainment that might offend the moral and religious sensibilities of others. In a free country... a person can eat and drink as they choose. In a free country... a person can attend a biblical conservative church or a liberal church that accepts alternative lifestyles. A person can choose to attend a Mosque. A person can choose to join a coven. A person can choose to become Jewish and attend synagogue. In a free country... different races can marry. In a free country... different religions can marry.

I'm NOT for the gay lifestyle. I DO NOT endorce gay marriage. However... I am a champion of liberty. How do we balance true liberty... and our own personal religious beliefs? I think it's simple. We live what we believe. And allow other men to do the same. From there we join the great conversation about God and Christ and tell all who we believe Jesus truly was. He will draw His own.

[AreYouReady?]

For the most part, most Christians equate state permission (license) to marry legally as the only recognized marriage. Some just cannot differentiate between the act of marriage in God's eyes verses the state's legal permission/license to marry.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

For the most part, most Christians equate state permission (license) to marry legally as the only recognized marriage. Some just cannot differentiate between the act of marriage in God's eyes verses the state's legal permission/license to marry.

True. I read about one pastor (I think it was in Colorado) that told his congregation NOT to get marriage licenses and register their union with the state.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

For the most part, most Christians equate state permission (license) to marry legally as the only recognized marriage. Some just cannot differentiate between the act of marriage in God's eyes verses the state's legal permission/license to marry.

My grandmother was married twice and both marriages ended very badly and both divorces were way to expensive. She swore she'd never marry again. She met my step-grandfather and they were together over 37 years before his passing. They were monogamous, wore rings, called each other "husband" and "wife", and attended a little Church of Christ. Nobody knew they weren't "officially married" until his passing. My grandmother stated that she didn't need a "peice of paper" to know they were married. Were they married in God's eyes?

In 2010 nearly 45% of reporting house holds were unmarried couples and all statistics point to the numbers rising. People are increasingly loosing faith in the "institution of marriage" as defined by the government. These people just want to love one another and have a family. They don't relish government intrusion or regulations. Legally marriage as it is defined in our culture today is very hard to dissolve and is VERY expensive on all sides, especially a man's. Never before in human history has government forced such a high risk of financial loss upon men and women. Perhaps GOVERNMENT is the problem. Maybe the government should get out of regulating the personal lives of citizens. Perhaps those pastors who are taking a stand against couples getting marriage licenses and are just pronouncing them man and wife have the right idea.

For example, I know a married couple that split up. One abandoned the other and moved out, got their own place, and began rebuilding their own life. However, neither of them were legally divorced. One consulted attorneys but they were too expensive. The financial burden of living alone, paying the bills, caring for the kids, and meeting all the needs of the broken household was far too much to fork over between $2000 to $6000 dollars. One attorney offered a "payment plan" but wanted $1000 up front. And all of this is what was faced BEFORE the divorce officially began. You'd be amazed at how many people are unable to afford a divorce. The expense is crushing. When the divorce can cost between $1000 to $6000 dollars easy, and the outcome can cost a man over a fourth of his income... is it any wonder more and more Americans are opting not to officially marry? Again, the government and the courts have made marriage a three ring circus.

Here's an interesting article:

http://hushmoney.org/MarriageLicense-5.htm

Now, I don't know about advocating this position... but ... they make some interesting points.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Aquila

My grandmother was married twice and both marriages ended very badly and both divorces were way to expensive. She swore she'd never marry again. She met my step-grandfather and they were together over 37 years before his passing. They were monogamous, wore rings, called each other "husband" and "wife", and attended a little Church of Christ. Nobody knew they weren't "officially married" until his passing. My grandmother stated that she didn't need a "peice of paper" to know they were married. Were they married in God's eyes?

Yes

Originally Posted by Aquila

In 2010 nearly 45% of reporting house holds were unmarried couples and all statistics point to the numbers rising. People are increasingly loosing faith in the "institution of marriage" as defined by the government. These people just want to love one another and have a family. They don't relish government intrusion or regulations. Legally marriage as it is defined in our culture today is very hard to dissolve and is VERY expensive on all sides, especially a man's. Never before in human history has government forced such a high risk of financial loss upon men and women. Perhaps GOVERNMENT is the problem. Maybe the government should get out of regulating the personal lives of citizens. Perhaps those pastors who are taking a stand against couples getting marriage licenses and are just pronouncing them man and wife have the right idea.

I do not have a problem with this. You are preaching to the choir here.

Originally Posted by Aquila

For example, I know a married couple that split up. One abandoned the other and moved out, got their own place, and began rebuilding their own life. However, neither of them were legally divorced. One consulted attorneys but they were too expensive. The financial burden of living alone, paying the bills, caring for the kids, and meeting all the needs of the broken household was far too much to fork over between $2000 to $6000 dollars. One attorney offered a "payment plan" but wanted $1000 up front. And all of this is what was faced BEFORE the divorce officially began. You'd be amazed at how many people are unable to afford a divorce. The expense is crushing. When the divorce can cost between $1000 to $6000 dollars easy, and the outcome can cost a man over a fourth of his income... is it any wonder more and more Americans are opting not to officially marry? Again, the government and the courts have made marriage a three ring circus.

Here's an interesting article:

http://hushmoney.org/MarriageLicense-5.htm

Now, I don't know about advocating this position... but ... they make some interesting points.

The only problem I see is that if one dies, unless there is a Living Will or advanced health care directives, there is a legal problem. If a couple wants to have a Covenant Marriage, they should tend to those legal matters that will be forced upon them if there is a death in the household.

Uncontested divorces in this area are quite cheap. It's only when the couple cannot work it out that divorces cost money. Still, I think that every couple must make their own decision by how they want to join together. The church system is partly to blame in that many of them do not recognize Covenant Marriages. They call it "living in sin".