Repentance, Holiness, and the Church

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by JamDat

Can you tell me a human who has been perfect besides Jesus Christ?

You bet. Melchezidek, et al. You and me, under Grace. I got Scripture for that if you need it. You will refine your def of "perfect," surely, as time goes on; it is not the "perfectionism" that we imagine perfect to be. You are perfectly manifesting, right now.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by acerrak

1)the muslim god has no name, allah is just a general name in arabic for the word god. arabic christians use the word allah for god, but they do not use it as a name.

2)the true God is YHWH and not allah which is a moon god with three daughters. so the muslims do not know the name of their god as us Christians do. all they know is its just god.

3)yep history concludes that the authors of the quaran plagerized the bible and took some from it then added to it. I seriously doubt i will go down in flame for some plagerized non sense. the book is just as inspired as the book of mormons who plagerized parts of the bible then added a new concept into it. History supports it.

1) Acts 17:23
New Living Translation (©2007)
for as I was walking along I saw your many shrines. And one of your altars had this inscription on it: 'To an Unknown God.' This God, whom you worship without knowing, is the one I'm telling you about.

2) See 1), and hmm, yet YHWH divorced His "daughters." Better reload.

3) Ah, we're back to the beginning of the circle now. When you can address my previous answer to this w/o just reiterating, I will answer your answer. Please provide which plagiarization you will be referring to.
I ended up being really mean yesterday here, I guess (sorry Falla); I'm trying to be "nice" today. Have a blessed day.

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

1) Acts 17:23
New Living Translation (©2007)
for as I was walking along I saw your many shrines. And one of your altars had this inscription on it: 'To an Unknown God.' This God, whom you worship without knowing, is the one I'm telling you about.

2) See 1), and hmm, yet YHWH divorced His "daughters." Better reload.

3) Ah, we're back to the beginning of the circle now. When you can address my previous answer to this w/o just reiterating, I will answer your answer. Please provide which plagiarization you will be referring to.
I ended up being really mean yesterday here, I guess (sorry Falla); I'm trying to be "nice" today. Have a blessed day.

greeks had many gods they worshiped, Paul also talked about their ignorance.
He used the idol that was dedicated to the unkown god, as a foot in the Door to proclaim the real God YHWH.

and of course YHWH divorced his israel. he did not have daughters like the meccan god allah who had 3 daughters.

one can see the metaphor as Israel prostituted themselves out to fake gods.

yes this forum can make you angry. I am just recently back after probably a year brake or so

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by acerrak

greeks had many gods they worshiped, Paul also talked about their ignorance.
He used the idol that was dedicated to the unkown god, as a foot in the Door to proclaim the real God YHWH.

and of course YHWH divorced his israel. he did not have daughters like the meccan god allah who had 3 daughters.

one can see the metaphor as Israel prostituted themselves out to fake gods.

yes this forum can make you angry. I am just recently back after probably a year brake or so

Well, I hate to upset Randy more over this,
but our current hit movie, The Avengers,
has most all of those Greek gods in it,
now being offered for worship by your children,
with a nice healthy dose of Righteous Vengeance,
our fave subject, thrown in.

I think a bit more investigation into the Muslim
interpretation of the Name Allah might reveal
more truth, as the Qur'an insists Allah is One-
-but I am ignorant there. I am fairly confident
in saying "different Allah," because as you note,
the Name was generic, at least at one time,
just like "God."

Really, I am completely detached now
from my posts, as well as any replies;
I encourage any to shred anything I post-
-I will not be offended.

I personally find the general feeling toward
Muslims in the US reflected in my feelings
about the Catholic church. I was raised in the South,
and growing up, they were satan's minions here on earth,
as far as I knew. Then I met some Catholics.
Then I read some Catholic...mysticism? it is prolly termed.
Yikes. Powerful stuff.

Now I volunteer at Catholic Charities because,
as anyone in the US may note, if one is broke,
homeless, friendless, and in trouble, it is a
Catholic door that is open.

No offense meant, but just try running down to the nearest
Apo/Pent church with your problem (not you, personally),
and see what happens. Try calling them on the phone.
Try another across town. Try calling a Baptist, Charismatic
yadayada...you might get a hit with some Methodist church.
But you might not.

[JamDat]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

You bet. Melchezidek, et al. You and me, under Grace. I got Scripture for that if you need it. You will refine your def of "perfect," surely, as time goes on; it is not the "perfectionism" that we imagine perfect to be. You are perfectly manifesting, right now.

NO, no, no. You said that you believe "be perfect" is achievable. Who besides Jesus Christ was perfect? Who was perfect with out spot or blemish and be the lamb?

You think you can achieve a state of perfection? Not according to the bible. God through the death of Jesus Christ to atone for your sin can make you perfect, but that is not you achieving it now is it?

So lets go back to all those good muslims and how they're getting to heaven if they pass the test of Jesus, but not the test that we would take because the Word of God has been corrupted. Here is the test. Submit to Jesus Christ or not? Answer yes = pass, answer no = fail.

[JamDat]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

Yes, yes. The Mormons, the Muslims, the Hare Krishnas, Catholics, all have a similiar claim. It becomes meaningless words. Either one changes their mind, or they do not. I just checked, and God did not send me to judge Mormons. Most of the ones I've met seem to be producing good fruit. I'm looking for a Christian that has changed their mind. Maybe there are only 4?

If you are His, He did send you to preach the gospel. In fact it is a command is it not? Or do you think an evangelistic life is what Jesus commanded i.e. doing good works, praying before a meal, listening to K-love? Muslims and mormons both produce good fruit from what they were planted of, but they do not produce good fruit of God. I'd venture to say that very many of those who call themselves Christian (in the west at least) produce good fruit of what was planted in them too. To bad it wasn't the gospel seed that produced them.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by JamDat

NO, no, no. You said that you believe "be perfect" is achievable. Who besides Jesus Christ was perfect? Who was perfect with out spot or blemish and be the lamb?

You think you can achieve a state of perfection? Not according to the bible. God through the death of Jesus Christ to atone for your sin can make you perfect, but that is not you achieving it now is it?

So lets go back to all those good muslims and how they're getting to heaven if they pass the test of Jesus, but not the test that we would take because the Word of God has been corrupted. Here is the test. Submit to Jesus Christ or not? Answer yes = pass, answer no = fail.

Obviously Jesus was and is and always be perfect. All saints before being born again have sinned and were not perfect. Can a Christian be perfect toward God as concerning his works?

Answer:

We better be.

Why?

Jesus said :

1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write ; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest , and art dead. 2 Be watchful , and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die : for I have not found thy works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard , and hold fast , and repent . If therefore thou shalt not watch , I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. 4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5 He that overcometh , the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Rev. 3:1-5

Only those who are overcomers will not be blotted out of the book of life.

Jesus counsels his Church to get right. Make their works perfect. Be overcomers. Only such people will be accepted by him.

[JamDat]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Obviously Jesus was and is and always be perfect. All saints before being born again have sinned and were not perfect. Can a Christian be perfect toward God as concerning his works?

Answer:

We better be.

Why?

Jesus said :

1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write ; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest , and art dead. 2 Be watchful , and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die : for I have not found thy works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard , and hold fast , and repent . If therefore thou shalt not watch , I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. 4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5 He that overcometh , the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Rev. 3:1-5

Only those who are overcomers will not be blotted out of the book of life.

Jesus counsels his Church to get right. Make their works perfect. Be overcomers. Only such people will be accepted by him.

Unless I'm reading wrong (which I may be doing,) Bbyrd seems to be saying that good works will save you. I'm not talking about the church which should obviously be different than the unsaved.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by JamDat

Unless I'm reading wrong (which I may be doing,) Bbyrd seems to be saying that good works will save you. I'm not talking about the church which should obviously be different than the unsaved.

Hmm, my best answer there is that I read all the same verses you do;
we have "the separation" parable, wherein many surprised sheep,
who never did any steps, are "in," and "a good deed covers many sins..."
Which should be taken in context with other verses.

So, will good works save one? I read the endless, mostly circular arguments about this, and I'm not sure that that is the right Q, or the right way to ask what needs asking there.

I pretty much agree w/MTD, but another aspect that I think gets little attention is that as humans we imagine these things--salvation, born again, repentance, redemption, etc.--to be instantaneous things that happen with some words, right? Which I seriously doubt.

Accepting Christ, to me, is not something you do with your mouth;
although there is certainly meaning in public confession.
I think our walk is reflected in our children's progress thru life?
Toddlers get a grace that a kid who is 16 and should know better
does not; or should not. At a certain point, dad realizes it's better to let 'em spend the night in jail.

I've skipped around editing these paragraphs, so sorry if they're disconnected.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by JamDat

NO, no, no. You said that you believe "be perfect" is achievable. Who besides Jesus Christ was perfect? Who was perfect with out spot or blemish and be the lamb?

You think you can achieve a state of perfection? Not according to the bible. God through the death of Jesus Christ to atone for your sin can make you perfect, but that is not you achieving it now is it?

So lets go back to all those good muslims and how they're getting to heaven if they pass the test of Jesus, but not the test that we would take because the Word of God has been corrupted. Here is the test. Submit to Jesus Christ or not? Answer yes = pass, answer no = fail.

I think achieving it is possible, with sacrifice. Can a child become an adult?
Maybe not an exact parallel--but then why "Be ye perfect?" Your stance there would make Christ's words of no effect?

And @ Muslims up there, I have to say that the Muslim view as I understand it is "submit to Christ, BAM; but skip the Original Sin."