So Much Hurt On This Forum

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by BroJoe

I'm literally amazed.

So much hurt here. So much pain.

No, no one is posting it.

No, I'm not speaking to anyone in particular.

But I feel it in my spirit.

A lot of people, in fact I'll go as far to say most on this forum have been extremely hurt spiritually.

Spiritual Abuse is real folks. And I'm so sorry most of you have been mistreated and hurt by some ministers and pastors in the UPC.

No hurt here, just an epiphany! I can honestly say that I was never really treated badly in the church. I just realized the fallacy of a lot of things I was taught, and walked away from it. Plain and simple. No bitterness, no pain - just walked away.

Now, do I look back on certain things and see that there was quite a bit of emotion involved? Absolutely! Have people treated me differently? Absolutely. But, I have no qualms with that, it's human nature. You leave the club, you give up your membership - the members are going to treat you differently than when you were IN the club. But, that's human nature. It's the same with companies, families, schools, golf leagues, you name it.

In fact, I get frustrated with people who leave the church, and then want to point fingers back at those still in it and claim hypocrisy or unfairness that they are being shunned, etc.........folks, deal with it, it's the way things are, you can't blame them!

But, no mistreatment, no spiritual abuse stories here.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

I will always have that wall up. It really comes from two sources: My experiences with the "pod people" as well as the (unfortunately) unique ability to see through emotionalism and see "where the beef is". My depression has made me what I am today and given me the capability of NOT being influenced by a "Rah! Rah!" artist. Honestly, no motivational speaker has ever made me feel better, even temporarily UNLESS they had some real substance to say. The good news is is that it has kept me from feeling good and going to Vegas and ultimately having to sell my hair to a wig shop.

I definitely have a wall up. The psychobabble I was raised on says having a wall up is bad but I am not so sure. Sometimes it's just a wall that helps you discriminate between certain types of people.

No one could jazz me up either with rah, rah stuff pre-UPC. However, I fell for it hook, line and sinker in the UPC.

I want to share a weird experience that has me downright disconcerted. About a month ago, I felt them "God-bumps" and a need to pray "in the Spirit" like I used to do on a regular basis. I don't do it often now. So, I went ahead and did it. I spoke in tongues and gave myself over "to the Spirit". It felt good for the present moment but afterwards and especially the next day I was majorly depressed, the way I used to feel all the time when I was in church.

Okay, so this got me to thinking......when I first got into the church, I had an amazing experience with no depression attached. However, after being in the church for a year or so, I became depressed in a way I had never been before. I stayed that way for 10 years and then lessened all the fasting and praying I had been doing and I became less depressed and more able to stand up for myself and think for myself. Now, I generally feel much better than I did emotionally at any time in the UPC........except after I prayed "in the Spirit" last month.

I thought "Yikes!" What is this thing that is called "praying in the Spirit"? It reminded me of this guy I used to know who called his wife and mother and a couple other women who prayed all the time the "depression crew". I seriously wonder now if there is some biological attachment between "praying in the Spirit" as it is called in Pentecostal circles and depression. This is just based on my experiences. I was very surprised by how depressed I felt the day after giving myself over like that after not having done it in such a long time. So much for the "joy of the Spirit".

It makes me wonder if some praying is not a mere counterfeit of the real experiences but a person can't really tell because it is so encouraged and hyped. Scary.

What if there is a very rare real experience (that I know I have experienced) and a fake, hyped, counterfeit experience that people manufacture? This experience is like a drug.....makes you feel good for the moment and then depression comes afterward.....so you then feel like you must pray again to get that good feeling.

I think there may be something to it....

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I love the church...I love the alters of the church...i love what the church represents however as humans we are all just that.... humans...we must pray and seek God for ourselves... we should never have to be ruled or subject to some Hitler type person. While we don't want to become church hoppers and we must all realize there is NO perfect church or pastor...we can with an open mind and a praying heart seek a spiritual anchor and refuge for our souls and our families.
I have had to walk away from relationships because I felt they were abusive and thought they owned us because of a missionary offering....I have lost supporters because I may not fit in their little homemade boxes.....however I refuse to bow down to some things...

I will do my best to be nice and kind as far as possible but a few times have had to walk away...

I want to be right with the Lord and have a right spirit. (I often fail) however some people are just not healthy to be around....some think they own heaven and have God on their little string and only their church saves...the other church across town that preaches almost the same thing is tainted and dark...

I feel deeply sorry for my friend Randy Wayne...so kind, so sweet but was driven ...and thus he suffers in his spirit....when will be ever learn NOT to drive people, but lead them?

Jesus our example sorry to say would not be welcome in some of the churches that SEEM to have it all together...for he was a friend to sinners, talked with the children and had women disciples following him...His clothes would be laughed at. His sermons would be mocked...HOWEVER it is HIS love and compassion that reaches to us all today....the condemning Pharisees that stood on the corners condemning built nothing lasting for eternity...they run the sinners away...

Do I believe something? Of course I do...hundreds of pictures on this forum alone shows that...a lifetime of service....however when we begin to think of ourselves higher than a servant we have got it all wrong....We are called to serve and point others to the healer, the savior...
We are not gods walking around or Jesus in the flesh as some preach...we are just workers together with Him...

When people get a high elevated opinion of themselves that is when they decide they are Jesus in the flesh....

Wish we had a "like" button on here like we do on facebook.

Sis. Alvear sure has some good stuff to say and pass on to us.

[Steve Epley]

The truth is life is made up of hurts. We all get hurt and sadly we all hurt someone else. Some hurts we cause are through ignorance not malice. Others we hurt simply because we are human. When hurt we all have a choice to nurse the hurt until it becomes terminal or use it as a steppingstone to better things ahead.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by ILG

I definitely have a wall up. The psychobabble I was raised on says having a wall up is bad but I am not so sure. Sometimes it's just a wall that helps you discriminate between certain types of people.

No one could jazz me up either with rah, rah stuff pre-UPC. However, I fell for it hook, line and sinker in the UPC.

I want to share a weird experience that has me downright disconcerted. About a month ago, I felt them "God-bumps" and a need to pray "in the Spirit" like I used to do on a regular basis. I don't do it often now. So, I went ahead and did it. I spoke in tongues and gave myself over "to the Spirit". It felt good for the present moment but afterwards and especially the next day I was majorly depressed, the way I used to feel all the time when I was in church.

Okay, so this got me to thinking......when I first got into the church, I had an amazing experience with no depression attached. However, after being in the church for a year or so, I became depressed in a way I had never been before. I stayed that way for 10 years and then lessened all the fasting and praying I had been doing and I became less depressed and more able to stand up for myself and think for myself. Now, I generally feel much better than I did emotionally at any time in the UPC........except after I prayed "in the Spirit" last month.

I thought "Yikes!" What is this thing that is called "praying in the Spirit"? It reminded me of this guy I used to know who called his wife and mother and a couple other women who prayed all the time the "depression crew". I seriously wonder now if there is some biological attachment between "praying in the Spirit" as it is called in Pentecostal circles and depression. This is just based on my experiences. I was very surprised by how depressed I felt the day after giving myself over like that after not having done it in such a long time. So much for the "joy of the Spirit".

It makes me wonder if some praying is not a mere counterfeit of the real experiences but a person can't really tell because it is so encouraged and hyped. Scary.

What if there is a very rare real experience (that I know I have experienced) and a fake, hyped, counterfeit experience that people manufacture? This experience is like a drug.....makes you feel good for the moment and then depression comes afterward.....so you then feel like you must pray again to get that good feeling.

I think there may be something to it....

Praying "in the Spirit" or praying "in tongues" or praying "in our prayer language" is to edify or build us up. That is my understanding of Jude verse 20, 1 Corinthians 14:4, Ephesians 6:18, Ephesians 5:18-20, and Romans 8:26-27. I realize not all Christians believe all these verses can be applicable to praying in tongues. In Matthew 16:18 Jesus promises to build up/edify His church and I think that one of the ways He does this is through our praying in tongues.

As far as depression and an attack from satan after a session of praying in tongues--notice the sequence in Matthew chapter 3 and chapter 4.
In chapter 3 we see the dove descending upon Jesus and in chapter 4 we see the devil descending upon Jesus. In chapter 3 we see the power and presence of God's Spirit coming upon Jesus and in chapter 4 we see the power and presence of a satanic spirit coming against Jesus. In chapter 3, heaven opens up and then in chapter 4, hell opens up.

I don't want to sound like some of the preachers who talk about satan stealing our blessing, but, he is the thief who comes to steal, kill, and destroy.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

The truth is life is made up of hurts. We all get hurt and sadly we all hurt someone else. Some hurts we cause are through ignorance not malice. Others we hurt simply because we are human. When hurt we all have a choice to nurse the hurt until it becomes terminal or use it as a steppingstone to better things ahead.

Amen, Elder

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

The truth is life is made up of hurts. We all get hurt and sadly we all hurt someone else. Some hurts we cause are through ignorance not malice. Others we hurt simply because we are human. When hurt we all have a choice to nurse the hurt until it becomes terminal or use it as a steppingstone to better things ahead.

Hurts made through human ignorance are certainly easier to understand than the other type.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Sam

Praying "in the Spirit" or praying "in tongues" or praying "in our prayer language" is to edify or build us up. That is my understanding of Jude verse 20, 1 Corinthians 14:4, Ephesians 6:18, Ephesians 5:18-20, and Romans 8:26-27. I realize not all Christians believe all these verses can be applicable to praying in tongues. In Matthew 16:18 Jesus promises to build up/edify His church and I think that one of the ways He does this is through our praying in tongues.

As far as depression and an attack from satan after a session of praying in tongues--notice the sequence in Matthew chapter 3 and chapter 4.
In chapter 3 we see the dove descending upon Jesus and in chapter 4 we see the devil descending upon Jesus. In chapter 3 we see the power and presence of God's Spirit coming upon Jesus and in chapter 4 we see the power and presence of a satanic spirit coming against Jesus. In chapter 3, heaven opens up and then in chapter 4, hell opens up.

I don't want to sound like some of the preachers who talk about satan stealing our blessing, but, he is the thief who comes to steal, kill, and destroy.

Sorry, but I just do not agree with this answer. The answer you give is the very reason I kept doing the same thing over and over for so long. Thank God I have stopped. Praying can be very good and edifying, but I think there is something else going on here.

[ILG]

One thing that happened to me and I think happens to many who are hurt in the UPC is that the hurt is never validated. It is always diminished, blamed on you and you are told to "get over it". When this happens, true healing can never take place because it amounts to denial of the problem. The real problems are never admitted to and dealt with so, in order to retain a person's sanity, they often leave.

[Cindy]

I think when people realize that depression is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain, then it can be treated. Until then, you are treating symptoms, not the cause.
After my daughter and son died, I really thought I wanted to die, of course I was put on medication to treat this symptom. So, I spent time I should have been grieving in a fog. Didn't interact with my family or friends, I really don't know how they were taken care of for at least a year. When I really came to or became aware of myself, I weighed 82 pounds. That shook me up enough to start eating again, to live. Finally was delivered from my addiction to the drugs I was on. Then joy as I became pregnant again, and delivered a healthy baby.
One thing I have learned is, happiness is a choice. I cannot blame anyone but myself if I am not.
I have also been blessed with wonderful children, and awesome grandchildren.
Although I do go through low points in my life, somehow I know it doesn't last forever, and I do know God gives me strength for each day.