|
Tab Menu 1
| Fellowship Hall The place to go for Fellowship & Fun! |
 |
|

06-22-2012, 10:54 AM
|
 |
Jesus' Name Pentecostal
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: near Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 17,805
|
|
|
Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
continued from part 2
“O Lord,
As we come together on this historic
And solemn occasion to inaugurate once again
A president and vice president,
Teach us afresh that power, wisdom, and salvation
Come only from Your hand.”
“We pray, O Lord, for
President-elect George W. Bush
And Vice President-elect Richard B. Cheney,
To whom You have entrusted leadership
Of this nation at this moment in history.”
“We pray that You will help them bring our country
together,
So that we may rise above partisan politics
And seek the larger vision of Your will for our
nation.
Use them to bring reconciliation between the races
And healing to political wounds,
That we may truly become ‘one nation under God.’”
Our country had never had such a difficult and
potentially divisive presidential election. Many
citizens were bitter and disillusioned by the process
and the outcome. There were more angry demonstrators
protesting on the streets of Washington D.C. than at
any inauguration since the Vietnam War. We needed
supernatural help to forgive one another, to heal
wounds, to move on as a united people.
“Give our new president and all who advise him
Calmness in the Face of Storms,
Encouragement in the Face of Frustration and
Humility in the Face of Success.”
Of course none of us could have realized, when I asked
the Lord to give George W. Bush “calmness in the face
of storms,” just how great a storm would howl eight
months later on Tuesday morning, September 11.
“Give them the wisdom to know, and to do, what is
right,
And the courage to say no to all that is contrary to
Your statutes and holy law.”
“Lord, we pray for their families
And especially their wives,
Laura Bush and Lynne Cheney,
That they may sense Your Presence
And know Your Love.”
“Today we entrust to You
President and Senator Clinton,
And Vice President and Mrs. Gore.”
“Lead them as they journey through new doors of
opportunity to serve others.”
“Now, O Lord, we dedicate this
Presidential Inaugural Ceremony to You.
May this be the beginning of a new dawn for America
As we humble ourselves before You
And acknowledge You alone
As our Lord, Our Savior, and our Redeemer.”
Believing God was directing every word of my prayer, I
had carefully chosen the word “Redeemer.” Naturally, I
was referring to the One who came to give His life for
all who will ever draw breath on this planet. The
redemption He purchased with the sacrifice of His own
blood is available to anyone who will simply accept it
–regardless of creed, nationality, religion, race,
reputation, or personal history. I knew stating that
there is no other Name by which an individual can be
saved would grate on some ears and prick certain
hearts. However, as a minister of the Gospel, I was
not there to stroke he egos of men. My role was to
acknowledge the all-powerful One and please Him. The
Bible says: “Therefore, whoever confesses Me before
men, him I will also confess before My Father who is
in heaven.”
I fear God in a healthy way. I know how proud the
Father is of His Son. As a parent, I know how pleased
my wife, Jane, and I are when someone says something
nice about our children. Would God not have a similar
response? Would He not be pleased to hear us
acknowledge with honor the Name of His beloved Son? I
want to please my Father in heaven no matter the cost.
to be continued in part 4
|

06-22-2012, 10:57 AM
|
 |
Jesus' Name Pentecostal
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: near Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 17,805
|
|
|
Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
part 4
I continued:
“We pray this in the name of the Father,
And of the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ,
And of the Holy Spirit. Amen”
To my surprise, I heard amens and applause from an
audience assembled primarily for political interests
–not religious. I was gratified that those listening
had understood the importance of seeking God’s favor.
Upon returning to my seat, Senator Hillary Clinton,
seated next to Tipper Gore, who sat next to Chelsea
Clinton to my right, reached across these two ladies,
clasped my hand, and whispered, “Thank you.”
Able now to sit back and take in the remaining
ceremony, I was proud of the president as he delivered
an eloquent and power-filled speech and rejoiced with
the ringing benediction given by Rev. Kirbyjon
Caldwell. He did not hold anything back. He honored
the Lord Jesus Christ and prayed in His Name.
After the swearing in, once again honoring the custom,
the platform party followed President Bush and his
family up the Capitol Building steps to the dome for
the inaugural luncheon. Members of the Senate, the new
cabinet, Supreme Court justices and their spouses were
assembled. Just as my father had done four years
earlier, I offered a prayer for the meal followed by
heartwarming comments by President Bush to the
distinguished guests. During the meal there was a
steady stream of senators, both Democrat and
Republican, who came to the head of the table to
congratulate the new president. It is a day I will
never forget, and I dare say most Americans will not
forget either.
Jane and I were privileged to observe the inaugural
parade down Pennsylvania Avenue from the president’s
viewing box. As the festivities were concluding, I
slipped back to my hotel to put the final touches on
my message to be delivered the next morning at the
Cathedral. Most elected officials from the capitol
city attended. This was specifically a religious
service, the first event sponsored by the new Bush
White House. I felt complete freedom in the pulpit to
say what I believed God had put in my heart.
After this service, I greeted the president and his
family and assured him of my prayers as he shouldered
such a heavy responsibility. That afternoon, following
lunch with friends, I eagerly flew to a more serene
atmosphere…home in the western mountains of North
Carolina.
I thought I had left the inaugural flurry behind.
However, days later, Alan Dershowitz, a man who
described himself as a deeply committed Jew, took
offense at my use of the Name of Jesus Christ.
Dershowitz, a professor at Harvard Law School and an
attorney who has defended clients as diverse as O.J.
Simpson and Jim Bakker, in an opinion piece for the
Los Angeles Times, said: “The very first act of the
new Bush administration was to have a Protestant
Evangelical minister officially dedicate the
inauguration to Jesus Christ, whom he declared to be
‘our Savior.’ Invoking ‘the Father, the Son, the Lord
Jesus Christ’ and ‘the Holy Spirit,’ Billy Graham’s
son, the man selected by George W. Bush to bless his
presidency, excluded the tens of millions of Americans
who are Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Shintoist,
Unitarians, agnostics and atheists from his blessing
by his particularistic and parochial language.”
The entire article continued in the same venomous
vein. Dershowitz did not disguise his outrage: “It is
permissible in the United States to reject any
particular theology. Indeed that is part of our
glorious diversity. What is not acceptable is for a
presidential inauguration to exclude millions of
citizens from its opening ceremony by dedicating it to
a particular religious ‘savior.’”
The Dershowitz article concluded, “If Bush wants all
Americans to accept him as their president, he made an
inauspicious beginning by sandwiching his unity speech
between to divisive, sectarian and inappropriate
prayers.”
What was he talking about? I am a Christian. Don’t ask
me to pray like a Hindu. I am not a Hindu. Don’t ask
me to pray to Muhammad; I am not a Muslim, I am a
Christian. That is who I am; a believer in the
greatest man that ever lived –Jesus Christ—a Jew.
The second prayer that Dershowitz referred to was, of
course, the benediction prayed by Kirbyjon Caldwell in
which he had also closed by invoking the Name of
Jesus. Kirbyjon told USA Today, I would have been
misrepresenting who I am and arguably even why I was
there had I not prayed in Jesus’ Name.”
Amen, Kirbyjon!
Alan Dershowitz should remember that this nation was
built on a Christian foundation. Patrick Henry once
declared, “It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too
often that this great nation was founded, not by
religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but
on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason
people of other faiths have been afforded asylum,
prosperity, and freedom of worship here.”
I found Dershsowitz’s criticism galling. I had not
excluded millions of Americans from my prayer. I
wanted to ask Mr. Dershowitz, “Since I am a minister
of the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, if I am to
express my religious freedom, how am I supposed to
pray?” And who has the right to tell me what I should
pray? As an American, am I not guaranteed freedom of
speech? Freedom of worship? In my prayer, I did not
force anyone to agree with me. I did not suggest that
the inaugural ceremony could not continue until
everyone present “came forward to pray the sinner’s
prayer.” I just did what I do; I always pray in His
Name.
Others chimed in with Dershowitz. Barry Lynn, head of
Americans United for the Separation of Church and
State, said that both inaugural prayers were
“inappropriate and insensitive.” An article in the New
Republic described the prayers that Kirbyjon and I
offered as “crushing Christological thuds” that
“barred millions of Americans from their own amens.”
I was not without defenders. I received hundreds of
enthusiastic letters from individuals, and many in the
media offered support. Jeff Jacoby, a columnist for
the Boston Globe, wrote: “Like it or not, American
Jews –like American Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus and
atheists—are different from their neighbors. This
country was founded by Christians and built on broad
Christian principles. Threatening? Far from it: It is
in precisely this Christian country that Jews have
known the most peaceful, prosperous and successful
existence in their long history. In America, a
non-Christian need not answer, ‘Amen’ to an explicitly
Christian prayer. This is a society where members of
minority faiths live and worship without fear, secure
in the hospitality and liberty America extends to all
religions. No American should try to suppress the
prayers of others. ‘Jesus’ should not be a forbidden
word in this land. Not even at a presidential
inauguration.”
A letter to the Jewish press stated; “No doubt any
prayer would be offensive and exclusive to an atheist,
but indulging such sensitivity would effectively give
the non-believer a veto power over the free expression
rights of the believer…I would expect a Christian
minister who deeply believes in his faith to give a
prayer grounded on that faith.”
The opinions expressed by some of those who reacted
negatively should sound a loud warning bell to
followers of Christ in America. For example, a student
at Kent State University wrote, “Graham encourages us
to acknowledge his God alone as our Lord, our Savior
and our Redeemer.” He’s exactly right. I do encourage
everyone to acknowledge the one true God, and His Son
and Him alone.
to be continued
Last edited by Sam; 06-22-2012 at 11:00 AM.
|

06-22-2012, 10:58 AM
|
 |
Jesus' Name Pentecostal
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: near Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 17,805
|
|
|
Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
final part
I cannot agree with the idea that every religious
leader should be forced to pray “politically correct”
prayers. Allowing someone to pray as he does normally
in expressing his faith does not explicitly discount
other religions. Think about this: If an atheist were
invited to give the invocation at an inaugural –perish
the thought—would we expect him to pray in the name of
Jesus or any god?
I believe that the response to the inaugural prayers
is additional evidence of a disturbing trend in
American public life: Christians who use the Name of
Jesus and insist that He is “the one and only way to
God” are increasingly viewed by many in the liberal
media as narrow minded religious bigots who represent
a threat to the rest of society.
Americans are extremely religious as the Gallup poll
shows. But that religious bent rubs against another
rubs against another value in our society that may
trump all others: tolerance. In our thirst for
personal autonomy, deal we seek is, “I will not
question your beliefs or behavior you will do the same
for me.” Does this now apply to spiritual issues too?
An eloquent advocate of Christian faith, Ravi
Zacharias wrote in Jesus Among Other Gods, “We are
living in a time when angry voices demand with
increasing insistence that we ought not to propagate
the Gospel, that we ought not to consider anyone
‘lost’ just because they are not Christians. ‘We are
all born into different beliefs, and therefore, we
should leave it that way’ –so goes the tolerant
‘wisdom’’ of our time…When people make such
statements, they forget or do not know that one is not
born a Christian. All Christians are such by virtue of
conversion. To ask the Christian not to reach out to
anyone else who is from another faith is to ask that
Christian to deny his own faith.”
None of this discussion and fuss really amounts to a
hill of beans if Jesus Christ was just another “great
teacher.” But what if He is more that? He is the One
who said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No
one comes to the Father except through Me.” A loyal
follower of Jesus does not concoct personal ideas
about these matters. All he or she does is faithfully
represent the words of the Master. But this is
increasingly considered suspect and even subversive in
America.
Most “burning issues” in our day flame out quickly.
Such was the case with the inaugural prayers. The
media attention span is short, but at least for a few
days in early 2001, the Name Jesus was heard in public
discourse as something other than a curse word.
The bold reentry of the Name would not happen again
for many months, until a shocking Tuesday morning in September.
|

06-22-2012, 11:56 AM
|
|
Banned
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 6,178
|
|
|
Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRea
It's NOT a mis-characterization, NOR is it muslim-hating to point out what is written in the koran. Seeing as you have studied the koran, you already know the passages that are written concerning their god not having a son; however, a simple google search will bring up several (not just a few) koran passages that emphatically, and clearly, state the the god of the muslims has not, does not, and has no plans to beget any son (context is very clear). It's not Fox News stating this; it's the koran itself. It is the koran denying that Jesus Christ is the son of God. It is clear from these passages that the god of the muslim is not the God of the Christians.
|
"Ishmael was blessed of God," and this silly obfuscation @ "God's Son" is pointless. If your God is not their God, that is your problem. You four and no more can go wherever you like, but if you pretend that a Muslim is hell-bound because of some difference of religion you are deceived.
You would do much better to hate on Catholics or something, as all this Muslim-bashing, which is what you are doing whether you want to admit it or not--it is screamed from some thread titles--is quite ridiculous. You become what you warn about. I'm not scared of them; I'm scared of you.
Just like a Christian's, a Muslim's relationship with Christ--who has more names than you know, and is not confined by your definition of Him--is their own business, and the Qur'an plainly states that Christ is the Way; yet you choose to dwell on semantics.
Last edited by bbyrd009; 06-22-2012 at 12:02 PM.
|

06-22-2012, 12:04 PM
|
|
Banned
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 6,178
|
|
|
Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
Your sole aim becomes apparent;
"How they are different from us."
Justify it all you like.
|

06-22-2012, 12:49 PM
|
 |
Laborers together with God...
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Maine
Posts: 220
|
|
|
Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
You seem to go out of your way to twist and misread many of the posts. We are not muslim bashing, we're critical of islam...two very different things. muslims have souls that need Jesus...islam is a satanic death cult.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbyrd009
"Ishmael was blessed of God," and this silly obfuscation @ "God's Son" is pointless.
|
Actually what you call silly and pointless, the Christian Apostle John calls a warning against the spirit of anti-christ. We are not obfuscating, but are quite clear...and the koran is quite clear...it denies that god has a son. In denying that god has a son, it declares itself to be anti-christ, according to the Christian Apostle John.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbyrd009
You would do much better to hate on Catholics or something, as all this Muslim-bashing, which is what you are doing whether you want to admit it or not--it is screamed from some thread titles--is quite ridiculous. You become what you warn about. I'm not scared of them; I'm scared of you.
|
Again, we're not hating or bashing anyone, muslims, catholics, or whoever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbyrd009
Just like a Christian's, a Muslim's relationship with Christ--who has more names than you know, and is not confined by your definition of Him--is their own business, and the Qur'an plainly states that Christ is the Way; yet you choose to dwell on semantics.
|
muslims have no relationship with Jesus Christ, and islam most certainly does not consider Jesus to be their Savior, He serves as a herald declaring another savior.
|

06-24-2012, 08:45 AM
|
|
Banned
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 6,178
|
|
|
Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
Well, I've yet to read of any other savior in the Qur'an,
and it plainly states that Christ is to be followed.
I might have a problem @ "God's Son," too,
but taking (Romish) history into consideration, and knowing
quite a few Muslims, and the fact that Christians
on this site have admitted to praying to Christ,
let me say that I'm at least persuaded that claiming
Islam is Satanic makes you look bad.
Your own garden is plenty full of weeds?
And really, pounding on this "God has no son"
thing, which the Qur'an hardly dwells on,
just comes across as another ignorant witch hunt.
|

06-24-2012, 06:38 PM
|
 |
Laborers together with God...
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Maine
Posts: 220
|
|
|
Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbyrd009
Well, I've yet to read of any other savior in the Qur'an,
and it plainly states that Christ is to be followed.
I might have a problem @ "God's Son," too,
but taking (Romish) history into consideration, and knowing
quite a few Muslims, and the fact that Christians
on this site have admitted to praying to Christ,
let me say that I'm at least persuaded that claiming
Islam is Satanic makes you look bad.
Your own garden is plenty full of weeds?
And really, pounding on this "God has no son"
thing, which the Qur'an hardly dwells on,
just comes across as another ignorant witch hunt.
|
Thank you for calling me ignorant, looking bad, and on a witch hunt. I do admit that my garden is full of weeds and that I definitely need Jesus (perhaps more than others).
Please comment on islam's stance that Jesus did not die on Calvary nor did He die for my (or anyone else's) sins. The following link will help since it was put together by muslims to educate Christians: What the koran says about Jesus
|

06-25-2012, 07:18 PM
|
|
Registered Member
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: ohio
Posts: 614
|
|
|
Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
Are they going to arrest me if I pray in jesus name?
|

06-30-2012, 05:11 PM
|
|
Banned
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,961
|
|
|
Re: You can pray...just not to Jesus.
Actually I should note that there is no slant on this story at all, at least in the Quran. The truth is that the Quran is silent on which son was sacrificed and simply tells the story of the obedience of Abraham.
Leaving this open as a 1200, 1300 year debate LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
I have not read the "Holy Qur'an" as our President refers to it, but it is my understanding that there is a different slant on which son Abraham offered in Genesis chapter 22 and which of his sons was to be his heir.
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:12 PM.
| |