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  #91  
Old 06-25-2012, 09:02 AM
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Re: So Much Hurt On This Forum

Charity beareth all things.
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  #92  
Old 06-25-2012, 10:17 AM
Nitehawk013 Nitehawk013 is offline
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Re: So Much Hurt On This Forum

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Originally Posted by ILG View Post
I wasn't depressed until after I prayed. I wasn't depressed before I prayed so there wasn't a "burden to be lifted". I was very depressed afterwards and the day after and then it lifted until I felt fine again.
If you weren't depressed until you prayed and were in His presence...maybe it was conviction rather than depression? And when you passed it off as depressiona nd ignored it long enough it went away.

Gotta consider all the possibilities.
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  #93  
Old 06-25-2012, 10:27 AM
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Re: So Much Hurt On This Forum

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If you weren't depressed until you prayed and were in His presence...maybe it was conviction rather than depression? And when you passed it off as depressiona nd ignored it long enough it went away.

Gotta consider all the possibilities.
No, I don't believe that God hammers people with depression in order to get them to do what He wants. I believe it was that I started with prayer and gave myself over to what I used to do in "worship" which I believe now to be a manufactured counterfeit, at least some of the time it was. I don't know how to separate the real from the fake but I know the real never came with depression and misery. I have had some amazing spiritual experiences that were nothing like that and then plenty of experiences that were just like that where I ended up depressed and then I was told I needed more of it to overcome the depression and it was cyclical, the more I did the worse the depression got.
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  #94  
Old 06-25-2012, 11:08 AM
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Re: So Much Hurt On This Forum

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Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
Charity beareth all things.
That sounds super-spiritual, but the context in which you post it is wrong.

I have been demonized, marginalized, and personally attacked by conservative preachers over the past few years, and at every turn your group never apologizes, and blames me for the hurt I feel.

Your "advice" is warped, Steve Epley. While it is true we all have a responsibility to find healing and restoration, it cannot happen within your movement because you castigate those who disagree with even one of your precious "truths."

I have watched as the same men who brutalized me were found to be adulterers, thieves, and liars. And, again, at every turn, because they spouted "the message" their preacher buddies gave them a free pass.

So, sure, I will get over what's been done. But YOU are responsible for their hurts you've caused-not your victims. Your attitude reminds me of the perv who raped a girl because she dressed "provocatively" and "deserved it."

There is no excuse for abuse.
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  #95  
Old 06-25-2012, 11:37 AM
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Re: So Much Hurt On This Forum

I find Steve Epley's responses ironic.

I doubt he believes crime should go unpunished. If robbed, he would ask for restitution. If shot, he would ask that the shooter be prosecuted. If a family member was raped, he would want the rapist punished to the fullest extent of the law.

Yet, when members of his own movement hurt people, the hurting are told to find their own healing, and to expect no apology nor restitution.

I find the duplicity remarkably hypocritical.

Last edited by Chateau d'If; 06-25-2012 at 11:42 AM.
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  #96  
Old 06-25-2012, 12:03 PM
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Re: So Much Hurt On This Forum

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Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
The truth is life is made up of hurts. We all get hurt and sadly we all hurt someone else. Some hurts we cause are through ignorance not malice. Others we hurt simply because we are human. When hurt we all have a choice to nurse the hurt until it becomes terminal or use it as a steppingstone to better things ahead.
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Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
Charity beareth all things.
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Originally Posted by Chateau d'If View Post
I find Steve Epley's responses ironic.

I doubt he believes crime should go unpunished. If robbed, he would ask for restitution. If shot, he would ask that the shooter be prosecuted. If a family member was raped, he would want the rapist punished to the fullest extent of the law.

Yet, when members of his own movement hurt people, the hurting are told to find their own healing, and to expect no apology nor restitution.

I find the duplicity remarkably hypocritical.
Bro. Epley explained exactly what he meant. I don't believe there are any people posting here who have not been hurt by someone. We are not always going to find restitution for our pain and hurt. That is why Epley can post - "Charity bears all things." Jesus didn't seek restitution.

You can grow crazy in your mind wanting someone to get their comeuppance, but it ultimately lies in the hands of God, who knows and sees all things.
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  #97  
Old 06-25-2012, 12:04 PM
RandyWayne RandyWayne is offline
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Re: So Much Hurt On This Forum

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Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
Bro. Epley explained exactly what he meant. I don't believe there are any people posting here who have not been hurt by someone. We are not always going to find restitution for our pain and hurt. That is why Epley can post - "Charity bears all things." Jesus didn't seek restitution.

You can grow crazy in your mind wanting someone to get their comeuppance, but it ultimately lies in the hands of God, who knows and sees all things.
I always liked that word, 'Comeuppance'. It's fun to say!

And I don't believe anyone is asking for restitution. Sometimes, usually, an apology goes a long long way.
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  #98  
Old 06-25-2012, 12:19 PM
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Re: So Much Hurt On This Forum

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Originally Posted by RandyWayne View Post
I always liked that word, 'Comeuppance'. It's fun to say!
Me too! It's so Victorian. Did I spell it correctly?

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And I don't believe anyone is asking for restitution. Sometimes, usually, an apology goes a long long way.
Randy, I believe that an "apology" is a part of restitution. We are just not always going to get it.

I'm not going to go into any details here, but I know exactly what that is and feels like. I know what deep anger feels like and the fear that you can't let it go. I know what it feels like to go to God again and again because your mind is tied up in all sorts of knots and you want to get out from under the pain. You wish you were that dove that David spoke of - "Oh, that I had the wings of a dove! I would fly away and be at rest.."

Waiting for and expecting restitution is futile, you have to move on - you have to save yourself.

"Love bears all things." You don't get "love" unless you speak to the Master who does not change the unchangeable and obstinate of heart, but He can and does heal those that want change for themselves. He can and does fill our hearts with love so that we can love again.
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  #99  
Old 06-25-2012, 12:41 PM
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Re: So Much Hurt On This Forum

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Originally Posted by Chateau d'If View Post

I have watched as the same men who brutalized me were found to be adulterers, thieves, and liars. And, again, at every turn, because they spouted "the message" their preacher buddies gave them a free pass.
.
Sadly, this is what I have seen too. Most people in the UPC I believe are good honest people who want to do what is right. However, what I find wrong in the movement in my experience was that when we saw basically what looked like misappropriation of funds when we took a church (to pastor) from a previous pastor (who had been on the district board) the district board's reaction was to push it away and pretend it did not exist, question us and not want to deal with it.

So, that pastor is still a preacher in the movement and was never dealt with during the time we were there. Also, because, I believe, of the district's refusal to do anything, our reputation was tarnished and people believed that we took money, which never happened and some of the people sued my husband and the church....(granted good Christian people would not do that)....but they were encouraged to do this and were told by the previous pastor that they had no choice but to sue us. Also, another preacher who was swayed by their story became their new "pastor".

The district board only supported us as little as possible during the lawsuit. They were as distanced from us as possible. They never called us. Never wanted to know how we were doing. When my husband showed up to a district board meeting with papers incriminating said preacher, the superintendent said he did not want to look at them. So, he never did.

Meanwhile, since we were new in the state, people went around and spread rumors about us far and wide as they drove past our house and night beeping the horn for weeks on end, forcing us to get little sleep and smashed out the headlights and taillights on my husband's truck and calling the police on him when he went into the church to get somethings out.

These things happened over the course of years. When we left there, we were so traumatized that I know I had PTSD. My husband could not hear when he woke up in the mornings for a while and he had cancer twice which I believe was at least partially caused by the stress.

When I tried to share these things and find some peace and healing, I was told I was bitter, looked at suspiciously, told I was nursing hurts and I was backslid. Meanwhile the previous pastor goes around preaching still.

So, yeah, I've seen it all and understand what you are saying. I have times when I grieve. Most of the time I feel okay after having been gone from there for seven years now. What a relief. I feel good with God.

So, abuse does exist no matter how much people try and pretend it doesn't. Pain does not go away just because someone pronounces you bitter for being beaten up. (I mean, how dare you get beaten up spiritually and emotionally!!)

The best thing I ever did was walk away.

I am sorry for all the people that we hurt too in the process of trying to make sense of what was happening. Innocent people were hurt when they did not understand our intentions or the battle we were fighting. But, we were unable to talk about it because the district would not deal with it which put us in a horrible position. We made mistakes but our intentions were always good.

And we did not steal or do any terrible thing. What we did was, we saw wrongdoing and we wanted the district board to look at it, guide us, deal with it and help us through how to deal with it and help the church heal. And because they would not, people were confused, including us. And the whole thing turned into a terrible mess.

So.....when people tell me I'm bitter or nursing a grudge or have an ax to grind or whatever, it annoys me but I don't really care all that much.

I know the truth. I know what happened. I know that people lied, cheated, stole and stuck their heads in the sand and then covered it up with scriptural platitudes.

I couldn't even talk about this for so long because I was so scared of these people. I am starting to talk a little though. I have healed a lot.
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Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb

When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
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  #100  
Old 06-25-2012, 12:42 PM
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ILG ILG is offline
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Re: So Much Hurt On This Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
Bro. Epley explained exactly what he meant. I don't believe there are any people posting here who have not been hurt by someone. We are not always going to find restitution for our pain and hurt. That is why Epley can post - "Charity bears all things." Jesus didn't seek restitution.

You can grow crazy in your mind wanting someone to get their comeuppance, but it ultimately lies in the hands of God, who knows and sees all things.
Wanting to be healed and wanting "comeuppance" are two different things. Not everyone who wants healing wants someone to "pay".
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When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
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