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07-09-2012, 04:00 PM
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Forever Loved Admin
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 26,537
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Re: A Wrecked Church!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias
What??? I'm just saying that IF it was who i SUSPECTED it might be, his spelling/typing had improved dramatically! I was going to congratulate him!!
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Not at you, about the whole situation.
__________________
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
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07-09-2012, 04:04 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,945
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Re: A Wrecked Church!
I gotta remember that.
'It's not always about me. It's not always about me. It's not always about me.'
Ahh... serenity!
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07-09-2012, 04:42 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,848
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Re: A Wrecked Church!
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Originally Posted by Michael Phelps
What about those of us who came in late and have no idea what the issue even is??  |
Mr. Phelps,
Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to figure out this situation.
The best I can tell this thread is about a church that is in a motor home and they had a wreck. 
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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07-09-2012, 04:59 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,903
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Re: A Wrecked Church!
Such a sad situation for such a wonderful church in it's time. To help some understand years ago it was very hard for struggling churches to borrow money so many preachers would borrow the money to do whatever but generally whenever the church would grow and get on it's feet they would make it more business like. However some men of that era which motives and hearts were pure as gold just didn't keep up to date and then a horrid situation like this happens. Every church needs trustees to keep the properties in trust. I am very sadden over this. We had no fellowship for years since they moved in a more liberal circle but I do feel for the saints who have been faithful and given their lives to this church. Outside of going to law I don't know what can be done and that may even be futile?
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07-09-2012, 05:14 PM
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On the road less traveled
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: On a mountain... somewhere
Posts: 8,369
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Re: A Wrecked Church!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley
Such a sad situation for such a wonderful church in it's time. To help some understand years ago it was very hard for struggling churches to borrow money so many preachers would borrow the money to do whatever but generally whenever the church would grow and get on it's feet they would make it more business like. However some men of that era which motives and hearts were pure as gold just didn't keep up to date and then a horrid situation like this happens. Every church needs trustees to keep the properties in trust. I am very sadden over this. We had no fellowship for years since they moved in a more liberal circle but I do feel for the saints who have been faithful and given their lives to this church. Outside of going to law I don't know what can be done and that may even be futile?
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Amen!
This pastor and family were some of the sweetest people, and we loved them dearly. It saddens us also to hear of this. We can only pray that something good will come out of this. Sometimes things have to come to a head, in order to resolve underlying issues. Will continue to hold these people up before the Lord.
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07-09-2012, 05:34 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,829
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Re: A Wrecked Church!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias
Do you play a keyboard out on the west coast?
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*insert smirking emoticon here*
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
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07-09-2012, 05:45 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,848
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Re: A Wrecked Church!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley
Such a sad situation for such a wonderful church in it's time. To help some understand years ago it was very hard for struggling churches to borrow money so many preachers would borrow the money to do whatever but generally whenever the church would grow and get on it's feet they would make it more business like. However some men of that era which motives and hearts were pure as gold just didn't keep up to date and then a horrid situation like this happens. Every church needs trustees to keep the properties in trust. I am very sadden over this. We had no fellowship for years since they moved in a more liberal circle but I do feel for the saints who have been faithful and given their lives to this church. Outside of going to law I don't know what can be done and that may even be futile?
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If everything is in the deceased pastor's name then I believe it would be futile to legally challenge the situation. Not to mention the attorney fees would most likely be something a church of less than a 100 people could afford. Looks like the majority of the income of the church is in the rental properties that the daughter controls.
Hopefully this story will be a warning to any pastors or saints who have a similar situation and have not addressed it.
Your analysis of how this kind of situation could have evolved is spot on. Similar to the stories of pastors who take 100% of the tithe because many years ago 100% of the tithe was still little or nothing. However as some churches grew into hundreds or thousands of members some pastors continued to receive 100% of the tithe personally then paid the church expenses out of that and kept the difference. The pastor of a medium sized church could pull in hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. A 100% tithe to the pastor personally has paid for many an investment property!
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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07-09-2012, 05:49 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,829
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Re: A Wrecked Church!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley
Such a sad situation for such a wonderful church in it's time. To help some understand years ago it was very hard for struggling churches to borrow money so many preachers would borrow the money to do whatever but generally whenever the church would grow and get on it's feet they would make it more business like. However some men of that era which motives and hearts were pure as gold just didn't keep up to date and then a horrid situation like this happens. Every church needs trustees to keep the properties in trust. I am very sadden over this. We had no fellowship for years since they moved in a more liberal circle but I do feel for the saints who have been faithful and given their lives to this church. Outside of going to law I don't know what can be done and that may even be futile?
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I agree with your assessment as well. I know my Dad had full control over his church's finances, but over the years he took out several loans to support the church and would routinely dump tithes money back into the church account to pay bills. I also know that he often paid evangelists out of his own pocket. I think what would have worried him most about having a board would have been that they wouldn't have been generous enough with visiting preachers or with people in the community who needed handouts.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
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07-09-2012, 05:49 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,945
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Re: A Wrecked Church!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley
Outside of going to law I don't know what can be done and that may even be futile?
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Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
1cor. 6:1
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07-09-2012, 05:54 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,829
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Re: A Wrecked Church!
StillStanding, check your PM's please! 
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
Last edited by Praxeas; 07-13-2012 at 12:27 AM.
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