A Wrecked Church! - Page 8

MissBrattified · #71 07-10-2012, 08:41 AM

Okay, here's my take:

First of all, it sounds like the daughter is trying to be fiercely loyal to her Dad's wishes. Right, wrong or indifferent, it sounds like she's using whatever power that she has to make sure what HE wants is what takes place--even if she has to kick objectors to the curb to get it done.

Secondly, there's always more than one side to a story, and respectfully, we only have one side represented on this thread.

I've just been imagining how I might act in the same circumstance. If I had power and knew my Dad had certain wishes and people in the church were trying to overturn his wishes with their vote (at least, in my perspective) I can't say that I might not react badly. Granted, it's the wrong reaction for several reasons, but I can empathize. People start being stubborn for the sake of it and it becomes a power struggle rather than negotiating what is best for the church as a whole.

On a final note, I think the personal life of the daughter is irrelevant to this conversation and everything that has been alluded to in that regard has been supposition and "rumor." It's best to leave that kind of stuff out of the equation. Stick to the facts.

ILG · #72 07-10-2012, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Okay, here's my take:

First of all, it sounds like the daughter is trying to be fiercely loyal to her Dad's wishes. Right, wrong or indifferent, it sounds like she's using whatever power that she has to make sure what HE wants is what takes place--even if she has to kick objectors to the curb to get it done.

Secondly, there's always more than one side to a story, and respectfully, we only have one side represented on this thread.

I've just been imagining how I might act in the same circumstance. If I had power and knew my Dad had certain wishes and people in the church were trying to overturn his wishes with their vote (at least, in my perspective) I can't say that I might not react badly. Granted, it's the wrong reaction for several reasons, but I can empathize. People start being stubborn for the sake of it and it becomes a power struggle rather than negotiating what is best for the church as a whole.

On a final note, I think the personal life of the daughter is irrelevant to this conversation and everything that has been alluded to in that regard has been supposition and "rumor." It's best to leave that kind of stuff out of the equation. Stick to the facts.

As usual, Miss B strikes the correct balance!

I also definitely agree her marital status needs to be left out of the equation.

AreYouReady? · #73 07-10-2012, 09:08 AM

If the church is a 501 C 3 tax exempt entity, she cannot do what she is doing. She will be in trouble with the IRS for not following the outline they established.

There are laws that say to be tax exempt, you must have a board, secretary etc because you are considered to be a corporation. Offices in the church system are to be elected. There are to be "business meetings".

If the church is NOT a 501 C 3 tax exempt entity, then they might be without legal remedy. In this case the people will just learn a lesson about placing trust in man.

I am not an advocate of transforming a church into a corporation. We are supposed to be separate from the world. But it is a sad state of affairs if the church cannot honestly deal with the money that the people contribute to it.

ILG · #74 07-10-2012, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

If the church is a 501 C 3 tax exempt entity, she cannot do what she is doing. She will be in trouble with the IRS for not following the outline they established.

There are laws that say to be tax exempt, you must have a board, secretary etc because you are considered to be a corporation. Offices in the church system are to be elected. There are to be "business meetings".

If the church is NOT a 501 C 3 tax exempt entity, then they might be without legal remedy. In this case the people will just learn a lesson about placing trust in man.

I am not an advocate of transforming a church into a corporation. We are supposed to be separate from the world. But it is a sad state of affairs if the church cannot honestly deal with the money that the people contribute to it.

See, this is interesting. I never realized that there were differences of opinion on this. What we were taught, is that you set up things according to law. When we got to the church we went to, it was not a legal corporation but only because the previous pastor had not done the paperwork. It had been voted in to be a corporation previous to that. There were no roster rolls of who was a member, nothing set up that could be solidly stated what was legitimate and what was not. We were aghast. The district superintendent shrugged and didn't care. (There had been a church split at this church two years before we got there over finances.) But the District Sup never really explained what he was thinking.

My husband set everything up legally, made legal records with income and outgo, set up the corporation and by-laws correctly, voted in a board, made a legal voting roster etc. However, some people in the church viewed this as anathema, particularly when my husband disallowed ONE member (for his behavior until we could get things figured out as to what was going on in the church with the finances). The dis-allowance of this one member became a backlash of people saying my husband was making a power grab and they eventually sued. They told everyone my husband was picking and choosing members and not allowing people (plural) to be members. There was, in truth, only one he temporarily disallowed because he lied about something.

I never knew that it was accepted in some circles to be against putting together a corporation and having boards etc. This might actually explain why the district superintendent did not do much. But no one ever explained this to us. Wow, lo these many years later, I am seeing some things maybe a bit differently. They still handled it horribly. The fact that they could not account for thousands of dollars the church spent, and that the previous pastor was paying for his harley davidson with the "expense account" etc, the fact the church property had a loan for 14% interest with an individual because they could not obtain a bank loan etc. and the fact there had been a church split over finances and that the previous pastor had told members not to speak to one another meant they should have looked at it rather than ignored us and let us be slaughtered.

Anyhoo....

AreYouReady? · #75 07-10-2012, 09:41 AM

ILG, please read my PM.

AreYouReady? · #76 07-10-2012, 09:44 AM

Even if a church is not a 501 c 3 tax-exempt corporation, it is still best for the church itself to have board members and an account of all monies vs a one man show.

It saves the people from experiencing a lot of grief later and it is an attempt to unify the people knowing everything is on the up and up.

Perhaps the problem there is that they voted it in, but they changed their mind and did not really want to become corporate? Somebody should have told ya'll and then proceedings could have taken place to hold another vote. This is on them and their lack of communication.

rgcraig · #77 07-10-2012, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Okay, here's my take:

First of all, it sounds like the daughter is trying to be fiercely loyal to her Dad's wishes. Right, wrong or indifferent, it sounds like she's using whatever power that she has to make sure what HE wants is what takes place--even if she has to kick objectors to the curb to get it done.

Secondly, there's always more than one side to a story, and respectfully, we only have one side represented on this thread.

I've just been imagining how I might act in the same circumstance. If I had power and knew my Dad had certain wishes and people in the church were trying to overturn his wishes with their vote (at least, in my perspective) I can't say that I might not react badly. Granted, it's the wrong reaction for several reasons, but I can empathize. People start being stubborn for the sake of it and it becomes a power struggle rather than negotiating what is best for the church as a whole.

On a final note, I think the personal life of the daughter is irrelevant to this conversation and everything that has been alluded to in that regard has been supposition and "rumor." It's best to leave that kind of stuff out of the equation. Stick to the facts.

One fact - the vote for pastor was for the daughter's choice.

Falla39 · #78 07-10-2012, 09:58 AM

Jesus said in Matt.15:13 that every plant that his Father hath not plant would be uprooted. I believe very "plant", whether it be an individual, church, organization, nation, etc., will in time, be tried/tested, as if by fire.

Could it be that IF those involved would pray and fast and allow the LORD to fight their battle, it might turn out differently. After all, IF the people of GOD paid for the church, it should belong to GOD. GOD CAN take care of that which belongs to HIM!!

HE IS the WONDERFUL COUNCELLOR, THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, AND THE PRINCE OF PEACE!!!
Seems that most cannot trust these kind of things into the HANDS of Someone they CANNOT SEE in flesh! Jesus said, "Blessed are they which have not SEEN, yet have BELIEVED"! Faith is NOT what we see now, but that which we take hold of, HOPE for, until that which is not seen appears! We don't need faith for what we CAN SEE!

Victory, victory shall be mine, Victory, victory shall be mine.
If I hold my peace and let (allow, permit) the LORD to
fight my battles; victory, victory shall be mine!

Falla39