The Trouble With Apostolics is...

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by scotty

Sounds you have been to some seriously wierd churches.

Sounds like just your average UPC around here... If they are not actually running around like maniacs they are talking about the good old days of 'pew walking', pulpit standing (I found this particularly vulgar), leaving scuff marks on the walls, etc.

I have seen slower moving traffic, i.e. the elderly, pregnant women and kids, run over by young to middle aged men 'running the aisles', one guy who would would boing up and down like he was on a pogo stick 'coconut' a young man (for those not familiar, it means smacking forehead to forehead) and a woman who would spin like a top with her fists flailing while every near woman was trying to keep her from hurting herself or getting hurt themselves by her... a woman who managed to fall down in ways that left her uncovered many times... and all this going on at once, it's mind boggling and looks more like demonic possession then a move of God.

And then to hear all over FB about how we had 'high church last night'... appalling!

Maybe I am just a stuffed shirt... or one of those people who barely has a pulse but after nearly having my arm broken by a young man running with his eyes closed I stayed in my pew when it got that kind of crazy.... I am old and broken bones heal slowly...

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

Sounds like just your average UPC around here... If they are not actually running around like maniacs they are talking about the good old days of 'pew walking', pulpit standing (I found this particularly vulgar), leaving scuff marks on the walls, etc.

I have seen slower moving traffic, i.e. the elderly, pregnant women and kids, run over by young to middle aged men 'running the aisles', one guy who would would boing up and down like he was on a pogo stick 'coconut' a young man (for those not familiar, it means smacking forehead to forehead) and a woman who would spin like a top with her fists flailing while every near woman was trying to keep her from hurting herself or getting hurt themselves by her... a woman who managed to fall down in ways that left her uncovered many times... and all this going on at once, it's mind boggling and looks more like demonic possession then a move of God.

And then to hear all over FB about how we had 'high church last night'... appalling!

Maybe I am just a stuffed shirt... or one of those people who barely has a pulse but after nearly having my arm broken by a young man running with his eyes closed I stayed in my pew when it got that kind of crazy.... I am old and broken bones heal slowly...

Oh my geezz .. where do you live ? What the hey is wrong with those people ?

Oh well, happy to say here I have been a member of 3 or 4 UPC church's across Ark and Louisiana..... Never experienced that.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by scotty

Geezzz.

The point is not the "jump,run, shout" part. The point is going all out for that then sitting in church like you have no pulse. Or better yet, taking the time and money to do all the other but nobody has time for God's work.

Maybe preachers need to start dumbing the message down so people get it.

LOL! Maybe so!

But, seriously, that is NOT a common occurrence and I am sure I made it sound that way. If I hear that once a year anywhere, it's too much for me.

It's just not a good analogy to get in the habit of using. It goes along the same line of the language of "God didn't make Adam and Steve." I hate that. Sin is so destructive, clutching, and devastating that I wouldn't want to make a mockery out of it. Someone started the language and others have picked it up - just a repeated habitual language.

"If you don't stand up, shout, jump up and down for Jesus, I'm wondering who you are for!"

This type of language always come across, to me, as a threat and I never respond to it. It doesn't matter what the context is, it's not a good way to express it.

I was asking my son how he felt about that and he said, "When I go to a Bulls game and I am shouting, it's because they are giving me something to feed off of." Yikes!

We have awesome worship, prayer, preaching, outreach, etc. The Gospel message is correct. This is just a huge pet peeve of mine. Always has been, always will be.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Sam

Well, if you want to be like Jesus you have to jump, shout, dance, spin, and run around, etc like He did. The scribes and the lawyers were constantly referring to him as "Jumping Jesus" when they spoke about him.

Great one Sam!!!!

If we can't worship Jesus for who HE is without being all worked up into an emotional frenzy, then He is not accepting our worship anyway.

And yes, T2W, I have seen people act as though they were "demon possessed" and somehow Jesus gets all the glory for the high church. I lived in Texas for a few years, and seen plenty of my share of this kind of nonsense. I know you are not making up one iota of what you have seen.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by scotty

Oh my geezz .. where do you live ? What the hey is wrong with those people ?

Oh well, happy to say here I have been a member of 3 or 4 UPC church's across Ark and Louisiana..... Never experienced that.

Certainly not the norm regardless of those broadbrushing the experience here.

[Titus2woman]

I am not trying to suggest that this goes on everywhere... but I believe there is a certain personality type that thrives on it. This was a big church and many people traveled from all over the Houston area to attend it. Some even changed jobs and moved closer to be there...

I personally could not abide it. The last straw for me was the day a visiting preacher had a young man who had been seeking for the HG come forward. He then had this kid get on his knees and crawl all around the platform begging for the HG. He did not receive it and so this went on quite some time. It was the deciding moment for me that this was not the place God would have me... That kid however is still there, at what cost to him, I can only imagine.

I think it's preachers like those I've met who are the founts of wisdom spewing trite sayings like the football analogy.

[KeptByTheWord]

Yes, indeed it is a broad brush, because of course not all churches are like that, and I would never want to say that. But there is enough of it that goes on, that for someone who has gone to a church like that, it is hard to get past that experience.

Thankfully, there are wonderful people here on AFF who can attest to the fact that there are churches where none of that takes place, and where moderation is a key factor.

But I have been in many church circles, and these not being just UPC, but other apostolic groups where if you were not moving during worship, the preacher would throw a songbook at you, and that indeed is a fact. Bro. Eply may know of the one preacher I speak of. He was known to do this. Every time I went to a service he was in, when he was playing the organ or accordian, you were always a little bit worried a songbook might come flying your way... lol!

The best services I have ever been in have been ones where you couldn't get to the altar fast enough, where a spirit of weeping, and intercession literally shook the building. Those were the services that brought about complete changes in my heart and life. The shouting, and hoop-la services seemed to last until you went out the door, and then there was a sort of emptiness in your heart later.

I have been in services where I could have stayed all night, if I could have, just laying on the altar weeping, and being in His presence, and a time of rejoicing would sometimes come after being in His presence like that, and that to me, was true worship. Dancing before the Lord with tears streaming down my face in love and adoration to Him, after my heart had been cleansed, and cleaned up at the altar.

Those are the kind of special times with the Lord that really did work a change in my life.

I would rather have that kind of worship any day, than the worked up, emotional frenzy that some seem to think is the only way God can move in a service (notice I said some, not all...)

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

(notice I said some, not all...)

I believe this... I'm just a little gun shy.

[Charnock]

Stereotypes exist for a reason.

And as to this notion that this type of behavior is rare? Well, some of you are just outright dishonest.

I have heard preaching similar to the quote from Huntley at almost every camp and convention I've ever attended.

[Charnock]

And, imo, the calls to jump, shout, and run exist solely to feed the preacher's ego.