A Wrecked Church!

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by StillStanding

My reason for starting this thread was not to start gossip. It is perceived as such by some, and for those people I apologize.

My reason was to give a voice to the disenfranchised and bullied in a church situation that I believe to be a travesty. I have nothing personal to gain, but there's a lot I could lose. (friendships) That is why I choose to remain anonymous.

The only way that I saw to combat the powers that be, was to bring shame and perhaps political pressure from the outside. The church may go on as orchestrated, but at least I didn't stay silent while watching the church go up in flames.

I apologize for a couple of wrong assumptions:

1. The church has no board. The church has a Trustee board in place. Trustees are guardians of the church's assets. This means that all the church's properties may not be in the former pastor's name as was told to me.

2. No succession plan was in place. We were told by a member that it was the former pastor's wishes for the local pastor to take over as pastor. For one reason or another, the majority of church members were not receptive to this choice.

The motivation from current leadership is getting clearer to me. This local preacher was given the mantle from the former pastor, and the rebellious and gossiping members voted him down! They sincerely believe he is God's choice, and they will go to any and all means to accomplish what they feel is God's plan for the church. It's really amazing to see the lengths they have gone by sending certified letters to those who voted against the local preacher, telling them that they are no longer members of the church and they aren't welcomed back! They will soon have an "invitation only" church vote, and it appears that the cards are stacked.

Please help me pray for this church. A lot of people are hurting and it's a very emotional time for them. God bless!

Stillstanding, it occurred to me that those feet you posted as your avatar is the type of feet that Jesus would wash.

You have received the scorn and criticism of speaking out in this thread, but you did so on behalf of those who are being run over roughshod. Keep the faith. Romans 8:28 is in progress here.

Peace to you brother.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by ILG

You would think it would just be a whole lot easier for the daughter to have counted the ballots herself and avoided the whole "kicking out" part.

LOL!!! Good point.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by ILG

Oh, that made me shudder. We've been on the receiving end of that relentless heckling.

I have a great heckling story. I was at a UPC revival in London England in 1977. (I don't want to give details of this story because I still have some portion of anonymity on here) and one night a young man and two young women probably in their early 20's showed up for the service.

During the preaching the young man began to heckle the UPC preacher visiting from the United States. Rather than kick the young man out or get angry the preacher (who is a really cool guy)used his sense of humor to respond directly back to the young man in a humorous but kind way.

This went on for a few minutes but eventually the young man shut up. Fast forward years later and after some big UPC meeting in the USA a man came up to this preacher and said "you don't know who I am do you?" To which my preacher friend replied no. The guy went on to say he was that young man who had heckled the preacher in London. He had been so moved by the message and the kind godly way this preacher handled his heckling that not too long after that meeting he gave his life to the Lord and became a Christian. Not an every day occurrence in London I assure you. When we were passing out fliers inviting people to that revival I had never met so many agnostic and atheist people in my life!

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by CC1

I have a great heckling story. I was at a UPC revival in London England in 1977. (I don't want to give details of this story because I still have some portion of anonymity on here) and one night a young man and two young women probably in their early 20's showed up for the service.

During the preaching the young man began to heckle the UPC preacher visiting from the United States. Rather than kick the young man out or get angry the preacher (who is a really cool guy)used his sense of humor to respond directly back to the young man in a humorous but kind way.

This went on for a few minutes but eventually the young man shut up. Fast forward years later and after some big UPC meeting in the USA a man came up to this preacher and said "you don't know who I am do you?" To which my preacher friend replied no. The guy went on to say he was that young man who had heckled the preacher in London. He had been so moved by the message and the kind godly way this preacher handled his heckling that not too long after that meeting he gave his life to the Lord and became a Christian. Not an every day occurrence in London I assure you. When we were passing out fliers inviting people to that revival I had never met so many agnostic and atheist people in my life!

[Rapture 1]

I want everyone to continue to pray for the people of the "wrecked Church". They are in desperate need of prayer. These are spirit feeled, lovely, sweet, mostly older people of God. Pray, not just that they can keep their church, but for the healing of their souls, minds and health. People are saying this is gossip, but I'm telling you, it is the truth. Call some of the faithful warriors in the church and they will tell you. The truth needs to be told, so this can not happen anywhere else. People's souls are at risk, and life is too short, whe never know when our time will come. Some of these saints have been at this church since the beginning, 58 yrs ago, in an old small house. They have raised their children and grandchildren, and lost their husbands there. After working to build the church and going and being faithful all these years, they are told now that they do not have a say in anything. Only the men are allowed to vote, by invitation only, Monday night. Anyone that didn't receive an invitation will not be allowed on the property. Here goes:
The pastor, who everyone loved ,died. He had picked an assistant pastor of his daughter's choice, a good friend of hers. She would not let him put one of his family in. She would remind him that he promised. And, people did
hear this, each time. After he died, she had the church to vote on him as pastor, For several reasons they did not want him. Her, and him had a vote with the members anyway. They had everyone to put their names on the ballot. Even after throwing out some votes by her, he lost. Thy continued on as before. The majority of the people wrote a letter and signed a petition for a very well respected Bishop from MI to come and be the interium pastor. The daughter called him and threatened to sue if he came down. He backed off. Now, they have come up with a solution to put her friend in. They have sent out invitation only to the men to vote. They say they are going by the by-laws written in the 50's when the church was in an organization. One of the laws, are that the secretary has to be man. The daughter isn't a man, and has handled the books, and money, after leaving her job as RN many,many years ago.
Some of the members that have spoken out, have been sent letters informing them they are no longer allowed to be on the property. Some because they got up and left when a preacher was chastizing them. There are 4 members on the board. The board was appointed by the late pastor, never voted on by the church. The one trying to get voted on for pastor is on the board. One of the other, admits he has never had the Holy Ghost. No preacher will come in and take up for the saints. They say they don't want to get involved.
Like I said, they are heart broken, but are planning on leaving there, because of the leadership. They are going for the last time tomorrow. We need your prayers for strength. The bible says "In the last days the love of many will wax cold", and thats why they will treat the saints like they do.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Rapture 1

I want everyone to continue to pray for the people of the "wrecked Church". They are in desperate need of prayer. These are spirit feeled, lovely, sweet, mostly older people of God. Pray, not just that they can keep their church, but for the healing of their souls, minds and health. People are saying this is gossip, but I'm telling you, it is the truth. Call some of the faithful warriors in the church and they will tell you. The truth needs to be told, so this can not happen anywhere else. People's souls are at risk, and life is too short, whe never know when our time will come. Some of these saints have been at this church since the beginning, 58 yrs ago, in an old small house. They have raised their children and grandchildren, and lost their husbands there. After working to build the church and going and being faithful all these years, they are told now that they do not have a say in anything. Only the men are allowed to vote, by invitation only, Monday night. Anyone that didn't receive an invitation will not be allowed on the property. Here goes:
The pastor, who everyone loved ,died. He had picked an assistant pastor of his daughter's choice, a good friend of hers. She would not let him put one of his family in. She would remind him that he promised. And, people did
hear this, each time. After he died, she had the church to vote on him as pastor, For several reasons they did not want him. Her, and him had a vote with the members anyway. They had everyone to put their names on the ballot. Even after throwing out some votes by her, he lost. Thy continued on as before. The majority of the people wrote a letter and signed a petition for a very well respected Bishop from MI to come and be the interium pastor. The daughter called him and threatened to sue if he came down. He backed off. Now, they have come up with a solution to put her friend in. They have sent out invitation only to the men to vote. They say they are going by the by-laws written in the 50's when the church was in an organization. One of the laws, are that the secretary has to be man. The daughter isn't a man, and has handled the books, and money, after leaving her job as RN many,many years ago.
Some of the members that have spoken out, have been sent letters informing them they are no longer allowed to be on the property. Some because they got up and left when a preacher was chastizing them. There are 4 members on the board. The board was appointed by the late pastor, never voted on by the church. The one trying to get voted on for pastor is on the board. One of the other, admits he has never had the Holy Ghost. No preacher will come in and take up for the saints. They say they don't want to get involved.
Like I said, they are heart broken, but are planning on leaving there, because of the leadership. They are going for the last time tomorrow. We need your prayers for strength. The bible says "In the last days the love of many will wax cold", and thats why they will treat the saints like they do.

We will continue to pray for the saints in this church. I know it is easier said than done after you have invested many years in a particular church but the important thing is for them to keep their eyes on Christ and his work. Church buildings will pass away but God and His work will not. They will find a church home where they will be able to worship God in peace and without strife.

[Rapture 1]

The former late pastor did not give the mantle to the "local" preacher. The late pastor had been sick for quiet some time, some dementia even. This was his daughter's choice. He even said to the members that he did not think ***** was able to pastor a church. But, he always did what his daughter wanted.

[Sam]

I know this is none of my business but what organization was this church in when it had those bylaws? If the bylaws are still valid and the person (daughter) who has taken over and is running things now is in violation of those bylaws, and there is now no higher organizational level they can appeal to, this may have to go into a secular court. People who have invested time and money in that building have something coming to them. If they are split into two groups, one group may have to buy the other out in order to retain use of the building. This may have gone as far as it can without outside legal intervention.

We had a situation here in Cincinnati with an ALJC church where one member asked to see the books. He wanted to know what some of the salaries were. When he requested this he was disfellowshipped and then told he could not see the books because he was no longer a member. He wound up going to court and the church had to give him he information he requested.

A church in a nearby city had a split over doctrine. Branhamism came in and some accepted it and some did not. It wound up going to civil court. One group got to keep the building but they had to pay the other group for their equity in the building.

I know this is going before secular courts but we're already involved with secular law the way we are organized with tax exempt status, etc.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Sam

I know this is none of my business but what organization was this church in when it had those bylaws? If the bylaws are still valid and the person (daughter) who has taken over and is running things now is in violation of those bylaws, and there is now no higher organizational level they can appeal to, this may have to go into a secular court. People who have invested time and money in that building have something coming to them. If they are split into two groups, one group may have to buy the other out in order to retain use of the building. This may have gone as far as it can without outside legal intervention.

We had a situation here in Cincinnati with an ALJC church where one member asked to see the books. He wanted to know what some of the salaries were. When he requested this he was disfellowshipped and then told he could not see the books because he was no longer a member. He wound up going to court and the church had to give him he information he requested.

A church in a nearby city had a split over doctrine. Branhamism came in and some accepted it and some did not. It wound up going to civil court. One group got to keep the building but they had to pay the other group for their equity in the building.

I know this is going before secular courts but we're already involved with secular law the way we are organized with tax exempt status, etc.

This was an ALJC church which has great latitude on internal local church policy. Really more of a minister's fellowship than church organization. I would think the the org would have no legal standing in the matter? I was hoping some fellow ministers friends of the former pastor could have some influence but it looks doubtful to what I am reading. My suggestion though it is painful find another home. This is horrible long standing members have to do that but sometimes things are take out of our control just ask Steinway who has been faithful for years but had no choice but to leave his church?

[Rapture 1]

They were in the ALJC for many years. The members didn't know they were out of it until shortly before the pastor died. A lawyer said the by-laws where not worth the paper they are written on. He also said everything "they are doing is illegal". This lawyer is a very well known and very busy lawyer, and is out of town a lot. He can't take the case, because he has left to go to WA, for some time, and we need someone now. Talking with another one, but you have to have a certain kind of lawyer.