A Wrecked Church!

[ILG]

A Love Story

I was thinking about StillStanding's post about this being like a divorce. I don't think you get over a divorce like you might some other things that happen in life. Depending on how long the "marriage" was and other criteria, the "divorce" can be horrible and have very long lasting wounds.

For me, I loved the UPC with all my heart. I had given my life to it. I defended it in the face of criticism. I left my previous life and friends (and even family to some extent) behind for it. My husband and I built a church that still stands today. We drove past it when we were on vacation a while back. We pulled up and I ran up and looked in the windows (something that my husband was uncomfortable doing). When I got back into the car I said "Isn't it funny that these people are in this church because of us and they could drive up and confront us about looking in the windows and ask us what we are doing?" He said "Yes, that is strange." I remember driving by one day and feeling the impression of God to call the pastor of this previous Church of God church and ask him if he wanted to sell the building. I called him and he said I should have my husband call him. The rest is history. It is a UPC today. And yet, they would not recognize me today and would probably chase me away if they saw me looking into the windows.

The church that I loved rejected me before I ever rejected it. We built a church and gave thousands of hours and dollars to both churches and the organization. We did fundraisers, taught Bible studies, passed out tracts, taught Sunday School, picked people up. We had potlucks and did baptisms and prayed our hearts out. We sang (I love to sing and play piano and I have nowhere to do that now) and worshiped God. We raised our children in this organization to be good people, with morals. My daughter used to sing with me.

What we gave so much to, kicked us in the teeth and stole from us. It stole our reputation, our livelihood, our peace, parts of my children's childhoods, our health and our community.

Yes, I have said leaving is the best thing we ever did and I meant that. But it did not come without a price, let me tell you. Leaving came with redefining who we were completely. We were no longer ministers, no longer UPC, no longer singers and piano players, no longer church builders. We were no longer who we had been for 19 years.

Anyway. Divorce.

Most of the time I don't think about these things and they are buried somewhere, but talking about these things lately has brought some stuff to the surface. I have had trouble sleeping and my shoulders and neck have been stiff. I appreciate very deeply being able to write what I wrote in this thread and I also very deeply appreciate the compassionate responses. It has been scary writing what I have written in this thread. I have previously said we had been through a lawsuit and things like that but I have never before written what I have written in this thread about some of the details. I have kept it quiet and hidden mostly for so long that writing about it has been very difficult. Yet, I am very thankful for the opportunity to do so. Thanks for listening.

To the UPC:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLQl3WQQoQ0

[KeptByTheWord]

The two "cohorts" in this case, seemingly the pastor's daughter and Bro. F. may succeed in forcing their will on the congregation... but it seems to me that there is not going to be much of a congregation left!

So to what purpose they think this is going to avail, is completely beyond me! To have won a battle.... but lost the war...

The story is not over yet.

Remember our faith and trust is never, ever, to be in man... but our trust is in Jesus.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by ILG

A Love Story

I was thinking about StillStanding's post about this being like a divorce. I don't think you get over a divorce like you might some other things that happen in life. Depending on how long the "marriage" was and other criteria, the "divorce" can be horrible and have very long lasting wounds.

Indeed it is a love story gone wrong.... yet I think perhaps this is because that love and faith has been put, in part, into a man, a building, a denomination, a group of people... etc. instead of realizing all along that the church belongs to Jesus.

Maybe this is God's way of bringing the focus back to HIM, where it belongs. It is not "so and so's church" but it is the church of Jesus Christ. It does feel like a divorce and a betrayal of sorts.... but I believe the hand of God is not finished with this congregation of people yet....

[ILG]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Indeed it is a love story gone wrong.... yet I think perhaps this is because that love and faith has been put, in part, into a man, a building, a denomination, a group of people... etc. instead of realizing all along that the church belongs to Jesus.

Maybe this is God's way of bringing the focus back to HIM, where it belongs. It is not "so and so's church" but it is the church of Jesus Christ. It does feel like a divorce and a betrayal of sorts.... but I believe the hand of God is not finished with this congregation of people yet....

Yes, I think it does bring our attention back to where it belongs. No doubt about that. Not that I think God endorses abuse for any "good" reason.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Classic signs of abuse. The forbidding of verbal exchange. The hiding of what is happening in order to complete the dirty work behind the scenes.

Malachi 3:15-18

15 And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, they that tempt God are even delivered.

16 Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name.

17 And they shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Esaias

How can people with the Holy Ghost not feel 'at home' with others who have the Holy Ghost... barring any weirdness going on or something?

EVERYPLACE I have been to that was full of Holy Ghost people, I have felt 'at home'.

That doesn't mean I agree with everything family members do, but still, family is family.

Right?

I don't get this being so attached to a particular congregation that one cannot 'feel at home' with another, assuming the Spirit is the same?

Maybe it's my lack of traditional upbringing or something.

One question how long have you been in one local congregation? Some of these folks married in that church-raised their children there-and even their grandchildren. They have been faithful thru thick and thin attending services for years. That local church is their church family. This is like an unwanted divorce when you have been happy in the marriage. They may go somewhere and heal but in these senior years I doubt they live long enough to feel at home. However I encourage them to get up and get out and find somewhere to go. I suggest Elder Adam's church.

[seekerman]

It's with sadness that I read of stories like this and the hurt and harm that comes to the children of God through such behavior. I realize the people have been hurt/harmed and even though it seems that the individuals who are controlling the building church system are inflicting pain and suffering, they're probably experiencing the same thing themselves. Probably in their mind they're protecting their building church system and see the individuals who are against them as against the truth.

The main problem is with the typical oneness Pentecostal church building system. I've noticed the typical phrase of 'bro so-and-so's' church in this thread and others. Go to 'bro so-and-so's church'. 'Bro-so-and-so' has a great church in this town and that town. Such 'church' systems are a disservice to God. It's not his system, but preachers will work and suffer and work the people and politic and money-money and 'building is the house of the Lord, , in order to build a manmade kingdom. The people are taught to serve the pastor and building and then when something comes along like the fiasco we're reading about, seeing the hurt and harm and pain and suffering, little is said that the preacher set up a system which isn't scriptural at all. It's almost like a franchise with McDonalds competing with Burger King and Burger King competing with Wendy's and if an individual has the particular denominational franchise, UPC, ALJC, Other, then they have the rights to a certain territory. When the franchisee passes away, the franchise is still owned and controlled by the family. So it is with some much of the oneness Pentecostal system. The father passes the franchise on to the children. The father and his family have put money and time and effort and tears into the franchise and therefore the son/daughter inherits the 'church' business.

This problem we're reading about originated with the Roman Catholic Church and the system which they instituted with didn't have scriptural support, as much of their teachings lack. The building=church and a pope-like figure heading the building-church has it's basis in Roman Catholicism. The pope/preacher is to be obeyed, he's the guy who speaks for God and to question him or the building-church system is blasphemy and the reward for such individual behavior is hell.

The sheep are scattered in this sordid story because of two things. First, the 'church' system which was established was against scripture to begin with and second, the devil knew it.

Sadly, those sheep who are scattered think the pastor was their shepherd instead of Jesus and they believe that they must attend and support a church=building system in order to not forsake the assembling of themselves together. Because of the error which was taught as truth to them, they are unable to simply meet as the New Testament church did. The Roman Catholic system puts people in bondage to the building=church system that few can escape from.

The best thing that could happen is that they never attend another building=church system and do as the New Testament church did. Unless that happens they're just trading Roman Catholic systems of bondage.

[houston]

Really, ILG??? I can never listen to that song again. Thanks.

[houston]

You should have set fire to the rain...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0mzLQyd36A

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by seekerman

The best thing that could happen is that they never attend another building=church system and do as the New Testament church did. Unless that happens they're just trading Roman Catholic systems of bondage.

In many cases, yes indeed. Yet, I know there are true churches of Jesus out there whose main focus is to glorify Jesus, and not the pastor, building, or denomination. They are out there, and maybe it takes situations such as this, to help people realize that the church is not a building, group, denomination or such like. The true church of Jesus are those who have taken up their cross to follow Him, and let nothing get in the way of the work done at Calvary in their lives.