A Wrecked Church!

[AreYouReady?]

Bro. Epley, what are the scriptural duties of a pastor?

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Evidently I agree with all those passages that pertain to business and it a general principle they could apply I was only saying there is no specific order given for a pastoral transition out side of ordaining elders in every city(which was original instead of transition) and the qualifications for bishops are given.

Okay, well it sounds like we agree in principle in part. I assume that you do not condone a pastor being slothful in business. Where you and I disagree, I think, is that I believe it is wrong to not take care of a church that is relying on you (you and I agree on this) but you believe that this falls under the "simply human" and "forgivable" and "let by-gone's be bygone's" category whereas you define a woman cutting her hair as hell-fire territory. I, on the other hand, find not taking care of a church that has been entrusted to you as much more serious and much more anti-biblical than a woman trimming her hair (which I admittedly find cutting of a woman's hair to be fine).

Where I find fault in your assessment (and in the assessment of what seems to be many pastors in ultra con thought processes) is the horrible off-balance of a woman cutting her hair to be hell-fire anathema and a pastor hurting scores of people by not taking care of business to be something easily forgiven.

It seems to me that if you do believe that a woman cutting her hair to be hell-fire fodder (and I know you do) then you should also believe that your brethren who are slothful in business to be at the least worthy of the same if not worse especially since there are scores of scriptures about doing right in business and one scant scripture about long hair on women.

[kingsmen]

I see there is some talk about a "mole" or two. The two people that are considered "moles", both of them had their own agendas. The first 'mole', the one that spent time in federal prison, he seems to be a "true mole" in that he was relaying information back and forth. You will note that he has not even left the church nor was he given a certified letter to leave the church. You must ask yourself a question...how could a person be so close to the people that have left yet he chose to stay when they chose to leave? And the "daughter" did not force him to leave??
As for the second "mole", he has been in this for himself the whole time. He does not work for the daughter and does not work for the people or their best interest. He has had his own personal motivation the whole time. For example, after the election where the "boyfriend" was voted down, he (the mole) was supposed to call for a vote against the "daughter" immediately but he chose not to do this because if he did and she were voted out the "bishop from Michigan" would have immediately come in and taken control. He did not want the bishop to come in because he wanted to be the pastor of the people. Next example, when the people wanted to retain an attorney he rose up against that, again because he has his own motivations. This mole knew if they got an attorney and won he might not remain in power. He wants to pastor badly, at any cost. Mark my word, it won't be two long before he has his brother in there prophesying over people. (Side note: his brother has been divorced and has never been faithful to any church, he is a prolific church-hopper. He is not qualified to prophesy over anybody. No respectable church would have him in their pulpit.)
If the "people that left the church" knew the real circumstances and were aware of these examples, they would not follow this man.

[BeenThinkin]

Originally Posted by kingsmen

I see there is some talk about a "mole" or two. The two people that are considered "moles", both of them had their own agendas. The first 'mole', the one that spent time in federal prison, he seems to be a "true mole" in that he was relaying information back and forth. You will note that he has not even left the church nor was he given a certified letter to leave the church. You must ask yourself a question...how could a person be so close to the people that have left yet he chose to stay when they chose to leave? And the "daughter" did not force him to leave??
As for the second "mole", he has been in this for himself the whole time. He does not work for the daughter and does not work for the people or their best interest. He has had his own personal motivation the whole time. For example, after the election where the "boyfriend" was voted down, he (the mole) was supposed to call for a vote against the "daughter" immediately but he chose not to do this because if he did and she were voted out the "bishop from Michigan" would have immediately come in and taken control. He did not want the bishop to come in because he wanted to be the pastor of the people. Next example, when the people wanted to retain an attorney he rose up against that, again because he has his own motivations. This mole knew if they got an attorney and won he might not remain in power. He wants to pastor badly, at any cost. Mark my word, it won't be two long before he has his brother in there prophesying over people. (Side note: his brother has been divorced and has never been faithful to any church, he is a prolific church-hopper. He is not qualified to prophesy over anybody. No respectable church would have him in their pulpit.)
If the "people that left the church" knew the real circumstances and were aware of these examples, they would not follow this man.

"And the plot thickens!" WOW!

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by kingsmen

I see there is some talk about a "mole" or two. The two people that are considered "moles", both of them had their own agendas. The first 'mole', the one that spent time in federal prison, he seems to be a "true mole" in that he was relaying information back and forth. You will note that he has not even left the church nor was he given a certified letter to leave the church. You must ask yourself a question...how could a person be so close to the people that have left yet he chose to stay when they chose to leave? And the "daughter" did not force him to leave??
As for the second "mole", he has been in this for himself the whole time. He does not work for the daughter and does not work for the people or their best interest. He has had his own personal motivation the whole time. For example, after the election where the "boyfriend" was voted down, he (the mole) was supposed to call for a vote against the "daughter" immediately but he chose not to do this because if he did and she were voted out the "bishop from Michigan" would have immediately come in and taken control. He did not want the bishop to come in because he wanted to be the pastor of the people. Next example, when the people wanted to retain an attorney he rose up against that, again because he has his own motivations. This mole knew if they got an attorney and won he might not remain in power. He wants to pastor badly, at any cost. Mark my word, it won't be two long before he has his brother in there prophesying over people. (Side note: his brother has been divorced and has never been faithful to any church, he is a prolific church-hopper. He is not qualified to prophesy over anybody. No respectable church would have him in their pulpit.)
If the "people that left the church" knew the real circumstances and were aware of these examples, they would not follow this man.

[ILG]

I was cleaning out my emails today (I am an email hoarder. ) when I came across an old email of someone accusing me of being a hypocrite for money's sake. This was not someone who attended the church when we pastored there but he had assisted the previous pastor before we got there. Wow, I had forgotten I had gotten that. This was a few years after we left there that I got the email. It still boggles my mind that people actually think we stole money. It hurts every time I run across something like that. And then I wonder if I should write about the hurt or just try to forget it all ever happened.....

[AreYouReady?]

The only way out is through it.

Your brain will never let you forget about it. It will continue to come back and haunt you every time you find yourself in a situation that reminds you of what you endured.

Start another thread if you want to discuss it or if not, then get out your writing tablet and write yourself through it.

Just remember that God knows you never stole any money from that church. Now you just have to convince yourself not to succumb to Satan trying to make you feel guilty over something you never did.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

The only way out is through it.

Your brain will never let you forget about it. It will continue to come back and haunt you every time you find yourself in a situation that reminds you of what you endured.

Start another thread if you want to discuss it or if not, then get out your writing tablet and write yourself through it.

Just remember that God knows you never stole any money from that church. Now you just have to convince yourself not to succumb to Satan trying to make you feel guilty over something you never did.

Thanks, AYR. I was so scared to write what I did on this thread today. I get so scared of opening up about this. My brain seems to think things are like they were then when I start to open up and that scores of people will avalanche me with accusations and beat me mercilessly. Your answer brought tears to my eyes. Just having someone not yell at me for talking about it helps a lot. I don't think I can start a thread about the subject. It makes me feel too raw but I greatly appreciate your response. Thanks. It seems I can only talk in little spurts.

[deacon blues]

Amazing a thread like this gets 25,000+ views in a few weeks...

Other threads with substance and that are uplifting/inspirational get very few...

And we wonder why things happen in churches like this? I read about 3 pages worth and I decided I need to go take a shower...

I wish I hadn't read any of it...

[tv1a]

As sand through the hourglass, so are the days of our lives.

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Amazing a thread like this gets 25,000+ views in a few weeks...

Other threads with substance and that are uplifting/inspirational get very few...

And we wonder why things happen in churches like this? I read about 3 pages worth and I decided I need to go take a shower...

I wish I hadn't read any of it...