Presentation is everything?

[Esaias]

I know that in food, presentation is certainly important. Improperly presented food will make even a good tasting dish seem to taste less than satisfying. And a good presentation can often help to overcome a badly cooked meal (though not always, of course).

But does this apply to our witness?

Brother Robbins made a comment in his apology thread. And let me say right off the bat that I appreciate his willingness to apologise publicly in the manner he did. But something he said got me thinking...

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins

There is never, ever, a time that anyone wins any argument, much less gains influence with their testimony for Christ by belittling others, or making assertions of someone else's character, intelligence, or especially their walk with God.

I got to thinking, what about these scriptures?

Then answered one of the lawyers, and said unto him, Master, thus saying thou reproachest us also. (Luke 11:45)

So Jesus is teaching and some folks got offended, saying that He was insulting them, being derogatory towards them. And His response? Did He say something like 'Oh, I don't mean to insult anyone, I am just saying...'?

No, here's what He did:

And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers. Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them. Truly ye bear witness that ye allow the deeds of your fathers: for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres.

And so on it went, breaking down into what might be called today a heated argument, as they began to 'vehemently urge Him, to speak many things' and so forth. At least, it seems as if His statements provoked a heated reaction from those folks He was speaking to and about.

In short, it seems that "...making assertions of someone else's character, intelligence, or especially their walk with God" are sometimes Biblical methods used by Jesus in His public teaching.

[Evenuntodeath]

Um.....no. Jesus was God manifested in the flesh. There are certain things he said and did with authority. In retrospect pastors and ministers have some authority as well, but we are all called to be servants of God and we are to win others with love and kindness.

I can't think of any situations where I feel I was called to "make assertions of someone else's character, intelligence, or especially their walk with God".

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I know that in food, presentation is certainly important. Improperly presented food will make even a good tasting dish seem to taste less than satisfying. And a good presentation can often help to overcome a badly cooked meal (though not always, of course).

But does this apply to our witness?

Brother Robbins made a comment in his apology thread. And let me say right off the bat that I appreciate his willingness to apologise publicly in the manner he did. But something he said got me thinking...



I got to thinking, what about these scriptures?

Then answered one of the lawyers, and said unto him, Master, thus saying thou reproachest us also. (Luke 11:45)

So Jesus is teaching and some folks got offended, saying that He was insulting them, being derogatory towards them. And His response? Did He say something like 'Oh, I don't mean to insult anyone, I am just saying...'?

No, here's what He did:

And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers. Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them. Truly ye bear witness that ye allow the deeds of your fathers: for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres.

And so on it went, breaking down into what might be called today a heated argument, as they began to 'vehemently urge Him, to speak many things' and so forth. At least, it seems as if His statements provoked a heated reaction from those folks He was speaking to and about.

In short, it seems that "...making assertions of someone else's character, intelligence, or especially their walk with God" are sometimes Biblical methods used by Jesus in His public teaching.

I agree. Many today find it hard to accept the Jesus scripture presents. The main way tho seems to be to reprove, rebuke, and exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

[Bro. Robbins]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I know that in food, presentation is certainly important. Improperly presented food will make even a good tasting dish seem to taste less than satisfying. And a good presentation can often help to overcome a badly cooked meal (though not always, of course).

But does this apply to our witness?

Brother Robbins made a comment in his apology thread. And let me say right off the bat that I appreciate his willingness to apologise publicly in the manner he did. But something he said got me thinking...



I got to thinking, what about these scriptures?

Then answered one of the lawyers, and said unto him, Master, thus saying thou reproachest us also. (Luke 11:45)

So Jesus is teaching and some folks got offended, saying that He was insulting them, being derogatory towards them. And His response? Did He say something like 'Oh, I don't mean to insult anyone, I am just saying...'?

No, here's what He did:

And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers. Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them. Truly ye bear witness that ye allow the deeds of your fathers: for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres.

And so on it went, breaking down into what might be called today a heated argument, as they began to 'vehemently urge Him, to speak many things' and so forth. At least, it seems as if His statements provoked a heated reaction from those folks He was speaking to and about.

In short, it seems that "...making assertions of someone else's character, intelligence, or especially their walk with God" are sometimes Biblical methods used by Jesus in His public teaching.

I think that maybe I didn't say what I meant just right... and for that, I could, I suppose have been clearer. There are times to rebuke.. there are times to cite the reality of where one is, especially if that person is in authority to do so, and Jesus certainly was.

What I was trying to say in my comment was taking cheap shots. Jesus never took cheap shots... his yes, was yes, his no was no. He did rebuke, he called it as it was, and I pray that I always will do that. But Jesus never lowered Himself to the cheap shots... that have nothing to do with the topic at hand, but just makes our flesh feel better about ourselves.

Even when Jesus called them names... it was to illustrate the true spiritual problem going on in their lives... it spoke to the Truth... it wasn't a sophmoric cheap shot to merely lash out at them.

I think it comes down to this. My Pastor that I announced my calling to preach under was the toughest preacher I ever had, but also the most loving. He would remind us when He needed to give us correction, that someone who loves you will tell you the Truth. And they're love will be obvious, even when what we have to hear is painful.

Every time Jesus had to stand for Truth, and even call names and be stern with the hearers around Him, to me his love and concern for their soul was obvious. He didn't lower himself to just mud slinging, but stayed focused on Truth.

Even as Michael the Disciple quoted... even our rebukes must be with longsuffering and doctrine...

It's the difference of providing castor oil in a teaspoon, or holding the recipient down, pouring it down their throat and calling them a fool all at the same time.

[bbyrd009]

No, you were pretty clear.
You all have my permission
to do your best to offend me.