Catholicism & Women

[Scott Hutchinson]

I'm not being arrogant,there is alot of stuff in the church world and in churches that calls itself Christian that has nothing to do with Biblical Christianity.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

I'm not being arrogant,there is alot of stuff in the church world and in churches that calls itself Christian that has nothing to do with Biblical Christianity.

What did you think about the first post, Scott?

[Scott Hutchinson]

I found the first post interesting.And Mary did play a important role in scripture,but she is not a mediatrix.

[Scott Hutchinson]

http://www.antiochian.org/node/17079

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

...My sister has a totally different experience as a Catholic. She remains Catholic to this day.

Yes, as PO pointed out, different people are going to report different experiences. Sometimes it's their own perspective that creates the positive view and sometimes it really is their experiences. The same is true of Apostolic women--or women anywhere, I suppose.

Maybe that is one reason as to why I do not see the veneration of Mary as lessons of elevating women as many of the Catholic men and women see it?

Perhaps my validation in being a woman is in reading how Christ treated women with respect.

I like this line....

When the realization of who Christ is...that salvation is in Him only, because of His shed blood, actually penetrated my gray matter, it made it easy to completely walk away from Catholic traditions and mass.

But yes, it was better leaving the RCC than it was UPC because I truly expected better treatment since "truth" is always inserted in discussion and lessons.

Originally Posted by Hoovie

I know women are disrespected and undervalued... but I have to agree with MTD. It seems to be the MEN that are being attacked more today. Pretty much most TV shows shun any parental authority by men. His role is valued most when he majors on his feelings and sensitivities... to the point of diminishing his masculinity.

My husband would agree. He hates most sitcoms for this very reason. However, I think that the same TV shows show women in unflattering ways as well--as dumb blondes, promiscuous, overly-emotional or dramatic, or stereotypically negative in other ways.

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

My husband agrees with this assessment that television diminishes men in general. He is so disgusted by cartoons like Family Man and especially "The Simpsons" where the father figure is portrayed as a bumbling idiot and his wife is the strong voice in the home. Why does the man have to be portrayed in this fashion?

He does not watch television at all because of the programming.

Dramas and more serious shows tend to show both men and women in a positive light. Comedies create caricatures out of everyone; the gay guy is going to be flaming; the athletic guy will be a dumb jock; the token blonde will be stupid; the family man will be a weakling; the black guy only speaks ebonics; the smart guy can't get a date, etc. People laugh at extremes and exaggerated characters.

That's why we watch crime dramas, reality TV aka Mythbusters or documentaries and rarely find any comedies that we enjoy. I can't even think of a good comedy right off hand.... My husband did like 8 Simple Rules. I've always liked "Last of the Summer Wine" and "Waiting for God." (Although I don't think men are painted in a very positive light on those shows either. )

[Titus2woman]

Honestly this is not a knee jerk defending of the 'underdog'... I could never see the RCC as the underdog in anything.

My defense of Catholics comes from having been Catholic. I was taken in by the Sisters of Charity as a kid when my mom became too sick to care for me. I spent several years at a home called Maryvalle in California that is still there to this day. The nuns were wonderful women who loved God and loved the kids. Their prayers at sunrise could be heard all over campus and I was much reminded of them the first time I entered an Apostolic ladies prayer room. I believe they moved heaven for their little charges and in addition they taught us to keep clean minds and bodies and eat our veggies. Lives sacrificed to that kind of service is something that is little understood and often mocked in Prostestant circles and that is shameful.

I believe that when we simply distance ourselves from RCC history instead of acknowledging that it is OUR history we tend to believe that we could NEVER have made the same mistakes. Yet the Bible tells us that we are capable of all manner of sin. We also lose much, our history, our art, our traditions.

Also, by blanket condemnation of Catholics I believe we grieve God who has given a place in eternity to many who lived under that banner. We will share the Kingdom with them (or not) and would be better served to get used to the idea now.

And lastly, when we distance ourselves far enough to deny any commonality we miss our opertunity to help the Catholic church find forgiveness and leave their horrific history behind. Change is coming to them and to every other faulty denomination, God promises it.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

Honestly this is not a knee jerk defending of the 'underdog'... I could never see the RCC as the underdog in anything.

My defense of Catholics comes from having been Catholic. I was taken in by the Sisters of Charity as a kid when my mom became too sick to care for me. I spent several years at a home called Maryvalle in California that is still there to this day. The nuns were wonderful women who loved God and loved the kids. Their prayers at sunrise could be heard all over campus and I was much reminded of them the first time I entered an Apostolic ladies prayer room. I believe they moved heaven for their little charges and in addition they taught us to keep clean minds and bodies and eat our veggies. Lives sacrificed to that kind of service is something that is little understood and often mocked in Pentecostal circles and that is shameful.

I believe that when we simply distance ourselves from RCC history instead of acknowledging that it is OUR history we tend to believe that we could NEVER have made the same mistakes. Yet the Bible tells us that we are capable of all manner of sin. We also lose much, our history, our art, our traditions.

Also, by blanket condemnation of Catholics I believe we grieve God who has given a place in eternity to many who lived under that banner. We will share the Kingdom with them (or not) and would be better served to get used to the idea now.

And lastly, when we distance ourselves far enough to deny any commonality we miss our opertunity to help the Catholic church find forgiveness and leave their horrific history behind. Change is coming to them and to every other faulty denomination, God promises it.

Ah. Good post.

I suppose that humility requires the acknowledgement that any religion--including our own--taken too far in the hands of corrupt men can result in the most horrific crimes and immorality. Such is human nature. I'm not quite willing to intertwine Catholic history with mine, though. I'll have to think about that.

Nevertheless, there is a distinct difference between Catholicism and Protestant denominations both in doctrine and religious practices. I find some good and some bad in both. Hoovie has mentioned this before, and I agree: coming from a religion that majors on spontaneity and following the Spirit, being immersed in a church that still abides by centuries of tradition, ritual and a very structured religious experience can be very appealing and even a comforting notion. On the flip side, I wouldn't trade my Pentecostal experience that has found me pursuing God on my own path, of my own accord, to my heart's content and finding a church that is uniquely suited to my walk with God for the more traditional, predictable, ritualized style. Modern Catholicism has opened its mind somewhat, but the basic doctrines are still the same and the potential for abuse of power is greater because of the leadership structure.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Nevertheless, there is a distinct difference between Catholicism and Protestant denominations both in doctrine and religious practices. I find some good and some bad in both. Hoovie has mentioned this before, and I agree: coming from a religion that majors on spontaneity and following the Spirit, being immersed in a church that still abides by centuries of tradition, ritual and a very structured religious experience can be very appealing and even a comforting notion. On the flip side, I wouldn't trade my Pentecostal experience that has found me pursuing God on my own path, of my own accord, to my heart's content and finding a church that is uniquely suited to my walk with God for the more traditional, predictable, ritualized style. Modern Catholicism has opened its mind somewhat, but the basic doctrines are still the same and the potential for abuse of power is greater because of the leadership structure.

Agreed and aptly describes many of the reasons that today I am a Oneness Pentecostal and not a Catholic. However some of the Catholics I know today have been filled with the spirit and are making changes from within the church rather then abandoning it. I respect that.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

Agreed and aptly describes many of the reasons that today I am a Oneness Pentecostal and not a Catholic. However some of the Catholics I know today have been filled with the spirit and are making changes from within the church rather then abandoning it. I respect that.

I do, too. I find it ironic that there are Apostolics who have expressed the same loyalty and intention....

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I do, too. I find it ironic that there are Apostolics who have expressed the same loyalty and intention....

Dontcha just?