Quote:
Originally Posted by returnman
This statement misses the point. There was a lot of "great joy" in the cities where there were believers as I recall. My observation for almost three decades confer's with this thread. I don't think Charnock is dismissing baptism. Or what about all the hysteria when some miserable soul mumbled enough unintangible's and the crowd would go besirk. I saw this happen once and the poor old homosexual went straight back to his sin.
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Nice response.
Consider: When we hear something (anything) we immediately begin a filtering process to determine whether or not we will receive what is said. When that filtering process leads to belief, over time our actions change to reflect that belief. If we reject what is said, we continue on living and acting as we did previously.
Think of how this relates to Apostolics.
If, when people are first brought into this culture, they are spoon fed repentance, baptism and tongues as the key to admission there will automatically be a higher value placed upon those three steps than belief (faith). If obedience to standards are preached as the means by which we hang on to salvation there will be more of an emphasis on standards than belief.
Now let's remove the "if" because this (^) is what is preached. No one is saved without repentance, baptism and tongues. These are the three steps Apostolics never fail to mention and
Acts 2:38 is what is used to validate this soteriology. Further, no one can stay saved 'without holiness (standards)."
These things are all very visual and measurable.
But notice something missing?
Faith is rarely mentioned. It is dismissed as "Baptist." In fact, I would surmise that the UPCI's motto "The Whole Gospel to the Whole World" has a direct negative correlation to the notion that faith justifies.
So the movement mirrors an absence of faith preaching. Conference and camp preaching rallies the base around measurements rather than saving faith. How many were baptized? How many will raise their hand, thumb up, to signify they've received tongues? And then we hear the pride in a pastor's voice as he shares that "The new one is conforming to standards without anyone saying anything to her about them."
Measurements.
Some Apostolics trust their processes more than their God.
I posit the possibility that someone can be baptized without faith, and speak in tongues without faith, and follow standards without faith.
Visual measurements can be false...but faith can't be faked.
You either believe or you doubt. Only God knows if faith is in your heart.
"And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."
Hebrews 11:6
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