Restoration after a moral failure - Page 2

MissBrattified · #11 10-05-2012, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Thank you Ms B for posting this.

Does UPC have any writings in their articles of faith about restoration of the sinner? Do they have any plan for restoration or do they just write them off once they sin?

I see that the ALJC has a statement of extending mercy and restoration of fallen pastors to the church.

I have been in the UPCI since I was a baby, and I have never seen anyone write off a repentant sinner. Write someone out of leadership? Yes. Write them off as not being able to be forgiven? No. Even in the most ultra-con church I attended, if someone confessed to a sin and repented, they were met with forgiveness and grace.

As to whether there is some sort of official plan that churches follow for restoration, I have no idea. Since the UPCI isn't planning to restore the minister to his position, this seems like it would fall to the local church or minister's peers and mentors.

Praxeas · #12 10-05-2012, 04:57 PM

Make the office a non paid position. Get rid of the one Pastor system too?

AreYouReady? · #13 10-05-2012, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Make the office a non paid position. Get rid of the one Pastor system too?

That would be a more biblical premise, imo since we are to obey them (not him) that rule over you (us).

AreYouReady? · #14 10-05-2012, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I have been in the UPCI since I was a baby, and I have never seen anyone write off a repentant sinner. Write someone out of leadership? Yes. Write them off as not being able to be forgiven? No. Even in the most ultra-con church I attended, if someone confessed to a sin and repented, they were met with forgiveness and grace.

As to whether there is some sort of official plan that churches follow for restoration, I have no idea. Since the UPCI isn't planning to restore the minister to his position, this seems like it would fall to the local church or minister's peers and mentors.

I don't know how they do it in other parts of the country, but sometimes over here forgiveness depends upon who you are or who you are connected to.

Praxeas · #15 10-05-2012, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

That would be a more biblical premise, imo since we are to obey them (not him) that rule over you (us).

I wonder if it might help solve some problems like financial fraud.

MissBrattified · #16 10-05-2012, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

I don't know how they do it in other parts of the country, but sometimes over here forgiveness depends upon who you are or who you are connected to.

You understand that by "forgiveness and grace" I wasn't speaking of restoration to a position...right?

I've never seen simple forgiveness and restoration to the church have anything to do with connections. I HAVE seen restoration to a position of leadership be related to connections and politics. But they aren't the same thing....

AreYouReady? · #17 10-05-2012, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I wonder if it might help solve some problems like financial fraud.

It might Prax. There seems to be a lot of it going on. Even in podunk mississippi.

And it would help spiritually suffering people in that in a multitude of counselors, there is safety. For some people, there is no council...just do as the pastor says.

Perhaps the church would fare better if there were no paid professional preachers. Just men and women loving God and giving of their time and resources for the poor because the Holy Spirit prompts them to?

AreYouReady? · #18 10-05-2012, 08:19 PM

Ok, I just now see where this topic has been discussed before. It seemed to have just ended without any real satisfactory answer or even adequate discussion.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...t=37032&page=5

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneAccord

It does seem strange that the NT is virtually silent on the subject of ministerial restoration. That may be due to the fact that there is no "One Size Fits ALL" method to restore a fallen minister. Every situation is unique and every situation calls for a unique approach at restoration. And, in many cases, as pointed out by Aquilla, there may be no restoration to a particular ministry. But, the individual can use his or her talents in some other area of ministry.

The area of concern is not in restoring a fallen brother to the ministry, but rather restoring him to a right relationship with the Lord. His call to the ministry was given by the Lord and, in the unfortunate event of a fall, it is really up to the Lord to restore the fallen brother to his previous ministry. Or to move him into some other area of ministry.

I would like to address this quote "It does seem strange that the NT is virtually silent on the subject of ministerial restoration".

Maybe the Apostles never thought that the church structure they set up would have ended up like todays church structure....being virtually a paid profession.
Maybe not one of the Apostles would have taken filthy lucre for delivering what they have heard from God on?

UnTraditional · #19 10-05-2012, 10:12 PM

You know, it is funny... we'll forgive so many people, but when a preacher falls, there seems to be no forgiveness from the religious sects in Pentecost. My Bible still reas all have snned and come short of the glory of God. If a man has sinned, and that sin is repented of, Go forgives. How dare we put a hand to the Ark of God and say what God can or cannot do through them? Sorry if thi seems like a rant, but I know the power of restoation myself, and have compassion on those whom the Church have cast away. And, let me state this, that one sin isnot greater than another. So, if tey steal, how is it that you'll forgive that, but not a man who has repented sincerely of that moral failure, shows fruit of repentance, and has a call of God on his life?

MissBrattified · #20 10-05-2012, 10:34 PM

I'm just trying to figure out why "forgiveness" and "position" are made one and the same thing....

I'm not trying to keep anyone out of their position, mind you. If a congregation wants to keep their pastor, I'm all for it. I don't care. I don't mind. Better that way than the other, in some cases. But why, if a congregation does NOT want the minister back in their position is that equated to a lack of forgiveness? Is that really what it is?

Or is it a lack of trust?

I've had someone close to me treat me abusively. I still love that person. I forgave them. But I wouldn't trust them not to do it again, under the right circumstances. Can you be led by someone you don't trust?

Do you allow a man who embezzled money to be in charge of church finances again? And if not, is that a lack of forgiveness? Should the rules be different for a saint than a sinner? e.g., should a sinner who committed certain sins prior to conversion but not after be treated differently than a saint who committed those same sins after conversion?

I don't see how this is limited to pastors. It would seem to apply to anyone. It's one thing to forgive people; it's another thing to trust them--especially to lead you and your family spiritually. The qualifications for a bishop are all about building trust and respect in the people--and not just the church people. A bishop is supposed to have a good reputation both within and without.