Restoration after a moral failure

[LooneyLucy]

Originally Posted by Dordrecht

Last time I checked, we are all moral failures.

[UnTraditional]

Originally Posted by Dordrecht

Last time I checked, we are all moral failures.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by LooneyLucy

Yes, I believe he does have a GREAT reputation. A weakness, no matter how long that weakness lasts, does not make a person a BAD person. As another pastor said on here...pastors are under a tremendous stress load. Some crack under that weight.

Wow..a man that was secretly carrying on a sexual relationship with someone other than his wife for 4 years has a great reputation....

and you called us liberal?

BTW we aren't talking about whether someone is a good person or bad person.

We are discussing what the bible says about qualifications for pastoring

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by LooneyLucy

Yes, I believe he does have a GREAT reputation. A weakness, no matter how long that weakness lasts, does not make a person a BAD person. As another pastor said on here...pastors are under a tremendous stress load. Some crack under that weight.

A person who commits adultery for years has a good reputatio? Well, that's just looney.

[LooneyLucy]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Wow..a man that was secretly carrying on a sexual relationship with someone other than his wife for 4 years has a great reputation....

and you called us liberal?

BTW we aren't talking about whether someone is a good person or bad person.

We are discussing what the bible says about qualifications for pastoring

Hmmm and I thot you were talking about reputation. I agree he had to step down, just don't agree with your "shunning" attitude.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by LooneyLucy

Hmmm and I thot you were talking about reputation. I agree he had to step down, just don't agree with your "shunning" attitude.

We ARE talking about reputation.

I challenge you to quote me once saying someone should be shunned. That is a lie.

You've done that several times to me and others. After a while it became a regular pattern for you.

We were NEVER discussing shunning. We were discussing qualifications of a Pastor and you knew that.

[LooneyLucy]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

We ARE talking about reputation.

I challenge you to quote me once saying someone should be shunned. That is a lie.

You've done that several times to me and others. After a while it became a regular pattern for you.

We were NEVER discussing shunning. We were discussing qualifications of a Pastor and you knew that.

I reiterate, he had to step down.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by LooneyLucy

Hmmm and I thot you were talking about reputation. I agree he had to step down, just don't agree with your "shunning" attitude.

Who here has stated he should be shunned? Not one here I noticed doesn't think he should be shown merecy in restoration.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by LooneyLucy

Hmmm and I thot you were talking about reputation. I agree he had to step down, just don't agree with your "shunning" attitude.

Lucy, when you consistently mischaracterize people's posts, you lose your own credibility. No one has alluded to the idea of shunning a repentant sinner. Or even an unrepentant one, for that matter. I certainly wouldn't want to be shunned and I wouldn't support that kind of treatment of ANYone else.

Even if a man commits terrible sins, if he repents, he should be forgiven. If God forgives, who are we to hold a grudge?

I'm just getting frustrated with the intertwining of "forgiveness" with "retaining one's position." One MIGHT retain a position if the congregation is okay with it, and one's authorities are okay with it--but if the congregation and/or the authorities are NOT okay with it, it doesn't make them wrong. It doesn't even mean they aren't forgiving. It means they don't trust the person to do their job OR at the very least, they don't think they can do it effectively. Which has merit!

I personally know of churches who have been so forgiving upon someone's confession that they allowed them to keep their job--and kudos to them for their compassion and magnanimity! However, it isn't necessary for the person to keep their job in order for forgiveness to take place. Further, you aren't thinking of the person who has fallen. Leadership is actually a very stressful position. It is OFTEN, if not always in the best interest of someone who has stepped very far out of line to take a step back and get their priorities straight. Think about what might lead to this kind of failure: a lack of prayer, a lack of relationship with God, a lack of relationship with a spouse, a lack of rest, too much stress, too many things on the schedule, overwhelming obligations---the list of contributing factors is lengthy.

Stepping down and going back to square one isn't just in the best interest of the church; it may also very well be in the best interest of the leader. Thinking of my pastor, if he committed some kind of immoral act, I would think that he would need to take time off first and foremost to restore his relationship with his wife--with no distractions or outside pressures. To restore his relationships with his children. And eventually to restore relationships and trust with the church and community. Those things take time and healing doesn't happen overnight. It really doesn't. Not unless God performs a miracle.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by LooneyLucy

I reiterate, he had to step down.

What does that have to do with the topic of biblical qualifications for a pastor including reputation?