A thought on tithing

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Tithing was practiced BEFORE the law(430 years in fact).
Tithing was practiced DURING the law.
Tithing was commanded by Jesus.
Tithing was practice by the early church.
I have tithed all my life in the church God has blessed me. AND I have given freewill offerings and helped the poor.
God has been good to me. No complaints.

We do and have always tithed. I just don't understand how the tithe is the same in the NT, giving all to one person.

[DaveC519]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Good rebuttal by seekerman, Dave. I'd like to hear your response. Thanks!

Hello Pressing-On and seekerman,

I was short on time yesterday afternoon and this morning, but hopefully by this evening I'll be able to post a response. Thanks for your input seekerman, those are all good points that I'd like to address.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

Hello Pressing-On and seekerman,

I was short on time yesterday afternoon and this morning, but hopefully by this evening I'll be able to post a response. Thanks for your input seekerman, those are all good points that I'd like to address.

Thanks, Dave. I always like to read what you have to say.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Sam

.
a thought on tithing






.

I think the illustration here misses the point. Abraham tithed not because he had to but because he WANTED to. We should have the WANT to and not the have to. (especially if Christians claim to also be the spiritual seed of Abraham.

[Truthseeker]

No one teaches biblical tithing.

[Aquila]

It's funny... massive charities rely on voluntary cash and material donations. But churches don't have the faith that Christian believers will voluntarily offer cash and material donations to meet the church's needs if they are made known.

[DaveC519]

Hello seekerman,

Originally Posted by seekerman

I agree that we are under the Melchizedektic priesthood, but that priesthood exists today in the person of Jesus Christ. We, as followers of Christ, are also partakers of that priesthood and it isn't limited to those who call themselves preachers, pastors, bishops or priests.

While it is true that, as believers, we are now part of a royal priesthood (1Pet 2:5, 9; Rev 1:6; 5:10), it appears we will not reign with Christ as kings and priests until his thousand year reign (Rev. 20:6).

There is no temple today in which to perform sacred services nor is there a literal altar on which to offer animal sacrifice unto God. A building isn't the 'house of God' nor is the clergy a continuation of the levitical priesthood with it's various rituals and ordinances.

I want to first address your comment by saying I am not advocating that Christians today participate in the Levitical tithing system. Why? Because there is no longer a Levitical priesthood to receive a Levitical tithe. There is no temple; there are no Levitical cities. All of this has now been replaced by the Melchisedec priesthood (Heb 7:12, 18). Again, I absolutely agree that the Levitical tithing system is no longer valid.

Having said that, I do believe there is a NT tithing system, and this tithe is SEPARATE AND APART FROM the Law. And I believe this is what Paul was arguing for in 1Cor 9.

Giving isn't the issue with me, it's the issue of WHERE to tithe. How does one give the tithe to the great Melchizedektic high priest? I'm His representative, you're His representative. How do we determine who receives the tithe as unto Jesus?

I think Paul tells us very specifically who this goes to in 1Cor 9:14-

"So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel." (1Cor 9:14 NASU)

houtoos kai (“even so”- KJV) is variously rendered “so also” (NASU, YLT) or “in the same way” (NLT, ESV, NIV, CJB, TLB, NCV, RSV). It means that the precepts or maxims which preceded this statement are to serve as the pattern, manner and example for that which follows:

ho Kurios dietaxen (“hath the Lord ordained”): dietaxen is third person singular aorist active indicative of diatasso. This verb appears sixteen times in the NT, and is variously rendered in the KJV as “command”, “appoint”, “ordain”, “set in order”, or “give order”. Other translations: “directed” (NASU, CJB, YLT), “ordered” (NLT), “commanded” (ESV, NIV, NCV, RSV), or “given orders” (TLB). It is used to convey a directive or commandment.

In this verse, the Apostle Paul is saying that the Lord has issued a commandment that they who preach the gospel should live (literally) “out of the gospel” (ek tou euangeliou zeen), and they should do so based directly upon the pattern, manner and example which precedes this verse, specifically, verse 13:

"Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?" (1 Cor 9:13 KJV).

Paul makes his appeal to the principle behind the Levitical tithing system to support his argument. Just as the Levitical priests lived of the offerings at the altar, "even so" should they who preach the gospel live by similar means.

The command for this to take place is issued to the church; the recipients are they who preach the gospel.

Your thoughts?

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

Hello seekerman,

While it is true that, as believers, we are now part of a royal priesthood (1Pet 2:5, 9; Rev 1:6; 5:10), it appears we will not reign with Christ as kings and priests until his thousand year reign (Rev. 20:6).

The point I as attempting to make is that there is no priesthood distinction between believers as it was in the OT system. For example, there is no difference between the priesthood of a pastor and the priesthood of the saint sitting on the pew. The OT tithing system supported the priesthood as well as the temple, neither of which exist today and cannot be tithed into today. The issue is where to pay the tithe in the view that the OT system is dead and gone.

I want to first address your comment by saying I am not advocating that Christians today participate in the Levitical tithing system. Why? Because there is no longer a Levitical priesthood to receive a Levitical tithe. There is no temple; there are no Levitical cities. All of this has now been replaced by the Melchisedec priesthood (Heb 7:12, 18). Again, I absolutely agree that the Levitical tithing system is no longer valid.

Having said that, I do believe there is a NT tithing system, and this tithe is SEPARATE AND APART FROM the Law. And I believe this is what Paul was arguing for in 1Cor 9.

I think Paul tells us very specifically who this goes to in 1Cor 9:14-

"So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel." (1Cor 9:14 NASU)

houtoos kai (“even so”- KJV) is variously rendered “so also” (NASU, YLT) or “in the same way” (NLT, ESV, NIV, CJB, TLB, NCV, RSV). It means that the precepts or maxims which preceded this statement are to serve as the pattern, manner and example for that which follows:

ho Kurios dietaxen (“hath the Lord ordained”): dietaxen is third person singular aorist active indicative of diatasso. This verb appears sixteen times in the NT, and is variously rendered in the KJV as “command”, “appoint”, “ordain”, “set in order”, or “give order”. Other translations: “directed” (NASU, CJB, YLT), “ordered” (NLT), “commanded” (ESV, NIV, NCV, RSV), or “given orders” (TLB). It is used to convey a directive or commandment.

In this verse, the Apostle Paul is saying that the Lord has issued a commandment that they who preach the gospel should live (literally) “out of the gospel” (ek tou euangeliou zeen), and they should do so based directly upon the pattern, manner and example which precedes this verse, specifically, verse 13:

"Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?" (1 Cor 9:13 KJV).

Paul makes his appeal to the principle behind the Levitical tithing system to support his argument. Just as the Levitical priests lived of the offerings at the altar, "even so" should they who preach the gospel live by similar means.

The command for this to take place is issued to the church; the recipients are they who preach the gospel.

Your thoughts?

Yes, I agree, the ministry should be supported by the giving/tithing of the saints. The question then becomes, what is the ministry? I'm not attempting to make this any more complicated than what it is, but is ministry the actions of building bigger and elaborate buildings in which the church is to meet? I don't think that's ministry at all. I wouldn't tithe into that.

Is the ministry the actions of individuals who interact with Christ by feeding the hungry, clothing the naked? In my opinion, if one wishes to interact intimately with Jesus and the Melchizedektic priesthood with his or her tithe, feed the hungry, clothe the naked. When you do this, you're doing it directly to Jesus per scripture.

I believe ministry includes, as you have pointed out, proclaiming the gospel. The problem is, what ministers are to be supported and in what level of support are they to receive? My background is oneness Pentecostalism. In that religious system I saw the pastor receive the tithe for proclaiming the gospel while the Sunday school teachers, the song leader, the musicians offering their ministry for free. Are we to tithe to the singers who sing the gospel or the teachers who teach the gospel or just tithe to the person who lives in the building based church system (which has no scriptural support at all).

So, it's not an easy matter at times to know WHERE to pay one's tithe. It's certainly not simply to a man who calls himself a minister or preacher who's involved in an unscriptural religious system.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

Hello seekerman,

While it is true that, as believers, we are now part of a royal priesthood (1Pet 2:5, 9; Rev 1:6; 5:10), it appears we will not reign with Christ as kings and priests until his thousand year reign (Rev. 20:6).

I want to first address your comment by saying I am not advocating that Christians today participate in the Levitical tithing system. Why? Because there is no longer a Levitical priesthood to receive a Levitical tithe. There is no temple; there are no Levitical cities. All of this has now been replaced by the Melchisedec priesthood (Heb 7:12, 18). Again, I absolutely agree that the Levitical tithing system is no longer valid.

Having said that, I do believe there is a NT tithing system, and this tithe is SEPARATE AND APART FROM the Law. And I believe this is what Paul was arguing for in 1Cor 9.

I think Paul tells us very specifically who this goes to in 1Cor 9:14-

"So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel." (1Cor 9:14 NASU)

houtoos kai (“even so”- KJV) is variously rendered “so also” (NASU, YLT) or “in the same way” (NLT, ESV, NIV, CJB, TLB, NCV, RSV). It means that the precepts or maxims which preceded this statement are to serve as the pattern, manner and example for that which follows:

ho Kurios dietaxen (“hath the Lord ordained”): dietaxen is third person singular aorist active indicative of diatasso. This verb appears sixteen times in the NT, and is variously rendered in the KJV as “command”, “appoint”, “ordain”, “set in order”, or “give order”. Other translations: “directed” (NASU, CJB, YLT), “ordered” (NLT), “commanded” (ESV, NIV, NCV, RSV), or “given orders” (TLB). It is used to convey a directive or commandment.

In this verse, the Apostle Paul is saying that the Lord has issued a commandment that they who preach the gospel should live (literally) “out of the gospel” (ek tou euangeliou zeen), and they should do so based directly upon the pattern, manner and example which precedes this verse, specifically, verse 13:

"Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?" (1 Cor 9:13 KJV).

Paul makes his appeal to the principle behind the Levitical tithing system to support his argument. Just as the Levitical priests lived of the offerings at the altar, "even so" should they who preach the gospel live by similar means.

The command for this to take place is issued to the church; the recipients are they who preach the gospel.

Your thoughts?

Very clear and correct by the way. Get your shield the God robbers are coming.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

Hello seekerman,

While it is true that, as believers, we are now part of a royal priesthood (1Pet 2:5, 9; Rev 1:6; 5:10), it appears we will not reign with Christ as kings and priests until his thousand year reign (Rev. 20:6).

I want to first address your comment by saying I am not advocating that Christians today participate in the Levitical tithing system. Why? Because there is no longer a Levitical priesthood to receive a Levitical tithe. There is no temple; there are no Levitical cities. All of this has now been replaced by the Melchisedec priesthood (Heb 7:12, 18). Again, I absolutely agree that the Levitical tithing system is no longer valid.

Having said that, I do believe there is a NT tithing system, and this tithe is SEPARATE AND APART FROM the Law. And I believe this is what Paul was arguing for in 1Cor 9.

I think Paul tells us very specifically who this goes to in 1Cor 9:14-

"So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel." (1Cor 9:14 NASU)

houtoos kai (“even so”- KJV) is variously rendered “so also” (NASU, YLT) or “in the same way” (NLT, ESV, NIV, CJB, TLB, NCV, RSV). It means that the precepts or maxims which preceded this statement are to serve as the pattern, manner and example for that which follows:

ho Kurios dietaxen (“hath the Lord ordained”): dietaxen is third person singular aorist active indicative of diatasso. This verb appears sixteen times in the NT, and is variously rendered in the KJV as “command”, “appoint”, “ordain”, “set in order”, or “give order”. Other translations: “directed” (NASU, CJB, YLT), “ordered” (NLT), “commanded” (ESV, NIV, NCV, RSV), or “given orders” (TLB). It is used to convey a directive or commandment.

In this verse, the Apostle Paul is saying that the Lord has issued a commandment that they who preach the gospel should live (literally) “out of the gospel” (ek tou euangeliou zeen), and they should do so based directly upon the pattern, manner and example which precedes this verse, specifically, verse 13:

"Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?" (1 Cor 9:13 KJV).

Paul makes his appeal to the principle behind the Levitical tithing system to support his argument. Just as the Levitical priests lived of the offerings at the altar, "even so" should they who preach the gospel live by similar means.

The command for this to take place is issued to the church; the recipients are they who preach the gospel.

Your thoughts?

Nehemiah placed other Levites over the tithing chamber to disburst the money. Thus someone has to take charge that the work of God is taken care of. A real pastor will see these needs are met you mention. However the singers & muscians though at blessing are not those who sow-thresh-reap. They do not PREACH the gospel only those who PREACH the gospel are ordained to live OF the gospel.