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Old 12-19-2012, 08:17 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: All Trinitarians are Lost!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by seekerman View Post
You, nor Epley know what you're talking about. You both are suggesting that "epikalesamenos" is middle voice and therefore means that Ananias is the person calling upon the name of the Lord on behalf of Paul with Paul silently stands there allowing another man to call upon the name of the Lord for him. But simply saying it's the middle voice indicates that Epley knows little about what he speaks.

"Epikalesamenos" isn't simply middle voice or permissive middle voice but is the subject of "be baptized" which is 2 person, singular, aorist 1, imperative mood, and middle voice. This determines how "epikalesamenos" is used. In this case the only conclusion is that the one being baptized is calling on the name of the Lord, which is Paul. It's not possible that ""epikalesamenos" is referring to Ananias, it has to be referring to Paul because he's the one receiving Ananias' command for him, Paul, to be baptized calling upon the name of the Lord. Your bold font, pretty colors and underling has absolutely nothing to do with the truth of the passage. Take it, analyze it, and find what it actually says. I couldn't agree more with French that one has the name called over themselves. The one who is receiving the baptism is calling upon the name of the Lord over themselves, the action is focused on them, not the performance of the baptizor, in this case Ananias.

"The Greek aorist participle, f, translated "calling оn His name" refers еіthеr tо action that iѕ simultaneous with оr beforе thаt of the main verb, "be baptized." Here Paul’s calling оn Christ’s namе for salvation preceded hіs water baptism. The participle mаy be translated "having called оn His name" whіch makes more sense, аѕ it would сleаrlу indіaatе the order оf thе events."

"translated "calling оn His name" refers еіthеr tо action that iѕ simultaneous with оr beforе thаt of the main verb, "be baptized." Here Paul’s calling оn Christ’s namе for salvation preceded hіs water baptism. The participle mаy be translated "having called оn His name" whіch makes more sense, аѕ it would сleаrlу indісatе the order оf thе events."

Not surprisingly your, and Epley's, view places someone between man and God other than Jesus Christ, namely Ananias and his performance which was needed by Paul in order that Paul might be saved. There's nothing in the passage which slightly suggests such a thing.

Looks like you and Epley need to dig a little deeper.
• The permissive middle is also like a passive in that the subject is the receiver of the action, but it is unlike the passive in that the middle always implies acknowledgment, consent, toleration, or permission of the action of the verb. The passive normally implies no such cognition.
An exception to this principle is the permissive passive. It is important to note that although both categories are rare (some grammarians even dispute the legitimacy of the permissive passive), the volitional element is almost always a part of the middle voice while it is almost always lacking in the passive.50
4. Illustrations
Luke 2:5
ἀνέβη Ἰωσὴφ ἀπὸ τῆς Γαλιλαίας … (5) ἀπογράψασθαι σὺν Μαριάμ

Joseph went up from Galilee … (5) to be enrolled with Mary

The idea seems to be that Joseph “allowed himself to be enrolled.” That this is permissive is evident by vv 1, 3, in which the passive is apparently used (ἀπογράφεσθαι). The permissive middle makes explicit the notion of volition that is not naturally borne by the passive.
Acts 22:16
ἀναστὰς βάπτισαι καὶ ἀπόλουσαι τὰς ἁμαρτίας σου

Rise, have yourself baptized and allow your sins to be washed away

If βάπτισαι were a direct middle, the idea would be “baptize yourself”-a thoroughly unbiblical concept.51 If ἀπόλουσαι were an indirect middle, the idea would be “wash away your sins by yourself”-also thoroughly unbiblical. This particular verb occurs as a causative or permissive middle in 1 Cor 6:11 (see below), its only other NT occurrence. The force of the voices here seems to be causative or permissive direct middle for βάπτισαι and permissive indirect middle for ἀπόλουσαι.52

Wallace, D. B. (1999). Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics - Exegetical Syntax of the New Testament (426). Zondervan Publishing House and Galaxie Software.
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