All Trinitarians are Lost!!!!!!!!!!!

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I meant that in the context of Cornelius. In his case, God called those things that are not as though they are. I also meant that in the context of those who had some preacher use an incorrect formula while baptizing them. If God fills them with the Spirit after that baptism, then that means in God's eyes THEY have obeyed Acts 2;38. This does not mean i would not share with them the historical truth concerning invoking the name of Jesus at baptism. but if christ lives in them, they are our brother. Why because the one who bears the Name lives in them.

Now it's your turn. Please answer my question.

I specifically answered your question already regarding I Ptr. 3:20-21 (I assume that's the question you're referring to?). Do you also post on CARM ??

If you have a preacher who knows what he is doing he will not "use an incorrect formula(e)" (which is really nothing more than a smoke screen)....But, I'm pretty certain he would be familiar w/ the pronunciation of the Name of Jesus Christ!?!?

If they are not water baptized in Jesus' name they are not my brother in Christ & are not walking in covenant relationship w/ God. Do a study of the oral invocation of God's Name in covenant initiation all throughout the Bible & your eyes will fly open wide !

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by rdp

Then what was the "special case" below?

Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Even Simon himself believed, and after being baptized he continued with Philip. And seeing signs and great miracles performed, he was amazed.

14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, 15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.

Notice, the Samaritans had believed in the Name of Jesus, seen miracles, deliverances, great joy (Acts 8.5-8), & even been water baptized. Despite of all of this, Peter & John had the audacity to "pray for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit"????

And, there is no doubt whether or not "baptism is for the remission of sins"....They Biblical data specifically states it is & I accept it as written!

I'll never understand why you folks fight the biblical plan of salvation so hard....Other than a misplaced loyalty to religion.

Sad..........

And I'll never understand the way your brain assimilates information, because I actually agree with what you say here. But either you completely missed my point or you are dodging it.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by rdp

I specifically answered your question already regarding I Ptr. 3:20-21 (I assume that's the question you're referring to?). Do you also post on CARM ??

If you have a preacher who knows what he is doing he will not "use an incorrect formula(e)" (which is really nothing more than a smoke screen)....But, I'm pretty certain he would be familiar w/ the pronunciation of the Name of Jesus Christ!?!?

If they are not water baptized in Jesus' name they are not my brother in Christ & are not walking in covenant relationship w/ God. Do a study of the oral invocation of God's Name in covenant initiation all throughout the Bible & your eyes will fly open wide !

Maybe you can say that someone who has the Holy Ghost is not your brother, but you are not being scriptural. The Spirit in them is the same Spirit of adoption that's in YOU, crying "Abba Father". You can't have it both ways. Furthermore, I've done many studies on oral invocations. I believe in them. But there is just not enough data to say that it is the "blood" is somehow "in the name" orally invoked. Again, that is eerily similar to transubstantiation.

Here is my question you did not answer.....

So does the blood still literally exist today? Where is it? Does it have a storage place? Is it orbiting the planet waiting to dive bomb sinners who are getting baptized? Is it invisible? Do you literally believe that blood has come in contact with your soul?

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Originalist

And I'll never understand the way your brain assimilates information, because I actually agree with what you say here. But either you completely missed my point or you are dodging it.

Not dodging a thing in the world....If you are in agreement then what's the beef??

Perhaps I am missing your point (or maybe you're not elucidating it clearly enough)!

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Maybe you can say that someone who has the Holy Ghost is not your brother, but you are not being scriptural. The Spirit in them is the same Spirit of adoption that's in YOU, crying "Abba Father". You can't have it both ways. Furthermore, I've done many studies on oral invocations. I believe in them. But there is just not enough data to say that it is the "blood" is somehow "in the name" orally invoked. Again, that is eerily similar to transubstantiation.

100% wrong! The OT states that the life of the flesh is in the blood (Lev. 17). The NT states that the "life" is in His "Name" (John 20.31). You are offering an unscriptural segregation of His Blood from His Name.

Here is my question you did not answer.....

So does the blood still literally exist today? Where is it? Does it have a storage place? Is it orbiting the planet waiting to dive bomb sinners who are getting baptized? Is it invisible? Do you literally believe that blood has come in contact with your soul?

Oh that one. Honestly, I do not respond to silly questions devoid of substance....& I'm not being coy here, but 100% sincere.

The Blood is found in the Name & person of Jesus Christ & is applied via repentance, water & Spirit baptism & on a daily basis. All the way from the brass altar to the Mercy Seat! You are unwittingly toying w/ the practical application of His Blood....Which was shed for the sins of the whole world (I John).

[Originalist]

Oh that one. Honestly, I do not respond to silly questions devoid of substance....& I'm not being coy here, but 100% sincere.

Or do you not respond to questions you can
t answer? You don't care to tell me where the blood of Jesus is now? You won't tell whether or not literal blood somehow touched your soul? That would seem vital to your stance here. And yes, the life is in the blood in that if you lose your blood you lose your life. But the Bible is very clear that it is the Spirit that quickens and gives life. In fact, I John 1 says that Jesus is eternal life manifest in flesh. He is that water that springs up unto everlasting LIFE. Again, you and Epley being Oneness Pentecostal preachers should have a deeper understanding and appreciation for the Holy Ghost baptism than this. Very sad.

The Blood is found in the Name & person of Jesus Christ & is applied via repentance, water & Spirit baptism & on a daily basis. All the way from the brass altar to the Mercy Seat! You are unwittingly toying w/ the practical application of His Blood....Which was shed for the sins of the whole world (I John.

While the blood gives a REAL cleansing in the mind of God, it NEVER gives anyone a LITERAL cleansing. If it does LITERALLY touch us, again I ask you, where is it stored? The only LITERAL cleansing you and I get is the cleansing, quickening power of Holy Ghost baptism.

The blood gives us a "positional" cleansing, in that God considers it the acceptable sacrifice to forgive our sins and tear down the wall that separates us from his Holy presence. As Paul said in Rom4, through Christ's sacrifice, all the righteous requirements of the Law are met in us . It's as if we never sinned. So God is then free to reside in us at Spirit baptism. That is when we receive "literal" cleansing and are infused with life making us a new creation. That's when John 20:22 is fulfilled and Jesus "breathes" the life back into us that Adam lost. The blood justifies us so his life can save us.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Or do you not respond to questions you can
t answer? You don't care to tell me where the blood of Jesus is now? You won't tell whether or not literal blood somehow touched your soul? That would seem vital to your stance here. And yes, the life is in the blood in that if you lose your blood you lose your life. But the Bible is very clear that it is the Spirit that quickens and gives life. In fact, I John 1 says that Jesus is eternal life manifest in flesh. He is that water that springs up unto everlasting LIFE. Again, you and Epley being Oneness Pentecostal preachers should have a deeper understanding and appreciation for the Holy Ghost baptism than this. Very sad.

Oh yes...I am just stupefied by your earth shattering question ! I already told you the Blood of Jesus is not just a one-time deal, but a continuous application. For example, the blood of the lamb on the doorposts & lintel prior to Israel's exodus from Egypt typified the Blood of Jesus....& there was more than one application! You cannot grasp this concept because you're so fixated on one aspect (i.e., Spirit baptism) that you eclipse the other aspects of biblical soteriology. In critical thinking this is called the "Neglected Aspect Fallacy," that is, the emphasizing of one aspect to the neglect of the others. This is picture perfect of what you're doing w/ the Blood & Spirit baptism.

Regarding Elder Epley (not just "Epley" BTW) & I....We teach that w/out the baptism of the Holy Spirit one is not saved & pray in the Spirit often. Ummm, not sure how one could have a greater "appreciation" than this!? And, it is you who needs a "deeper understanding" of the workings of the HS. All throughout Scripture there is a pattern of bloodshed with ensuing manifestations of fire or an outpouring of oil (Genesis 3-4; Lev.; etc.). No death or blood....No fire or oil!

The fires of Pentecost were sparked on the old rugged cross when the Blood was poured out!! We preach & teach this alllll the time....So, it is you who needs to do more homework on these concepts (& I have many more lessons I could share w/ you on this topic).


While the blood gives a REAL cleansing in the mind of God, it NEVER gives anyone a LITERAL cleansing. If it does LITERALLY touch us, again I ask you, where is it stored? The only LITERAL cleansing you and I get is the cleansing, quickening power of Holy Ghost baptism.

No one I know has ever stated that the physical-crimson blood literally touched our bodies....But God chose water baptism in His Name as the reflection of His Blood (Acts 2.38; Acts 22.16).....Just as He chose communion as the symbol of His Body & Blood! What's your quirky issue w/ these biblical truths???

The blood gives us a "positional" cleansing, in that God considers it the acceptable sacrifice to forgive our sins and tear down the wall that separates us from his Holy presence. As Paul said in Rom4, through Christ's sacrifice, all the righteous requirements of the Law are met in us . It's as if we never sinned. So God is then free to reside in us at Spirit baptism. That is when we receive "literal" cleansing and are infused with life making us a new creation. That's when John 20:22 is fulfilled and Jesus "breathes" the life back into us that Adam lost. The blood justifies us so his life can save us.

Sorry, but you are again emphasizing one baptism to the exclusion of the other...An unscriptural concept (Jn. 3:3-5; Acts 10:44-48). Oh, & you might wanna' do some research on where the book of Romans began before you start using it to negate the very experience the "saints in Rome" had already had!

Hint: Think Acts 10 !

[Old Paths]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Some of us work for a living.

And some of us don't have a "job"........

[Old Paths]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Looks like these Trinitarian haters are snorting some funny stuff

Maybe, I personnally don't hate anyone and have spent a life trying turn folks from false doctrine that will lead them to an eternity in a lake of fire..........

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by rdp

Sorry, but you are again emphasizing one baptism to the exclusion of the other...An unscriptural concept (Jn. 3:3-5; Acts 10:44-48). Oh, & you might wanna' do some research on where the book of Romans began before you start using it to negate the very experience the "saints in Rome" had already had!

Hint: Think Acts 10 !

Again, you create one straw man after another to argue with. But at least you finally answered my simple question.

I already told you the Blood of Jesus is not just a one-time deal, but a continuous application. For example, the blood of the lamb on the doorposts & lintel prior to Israel's exodus from Egypt typified the Blood of Jesus....& there was more than one application! You cannot grasp this concept because you're so fixated on one aspect (i.e., Spirit baptism) that you eclipse the other aspects of biblical soteriology. In critical thinking this is called the "Neglected Aspect Fallacy," that is, the emphasizing of one aspect to the neglect of the others. This is picture perfect of what you're doing w/ the Blood & Spirit baptism.

First of all, there is no "continuing application" of the blood. That is my point. There in NO application of the blood other than the one that happened 2000 years ago.

“But BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.” —Hebrews 9:12

In repentance/baptism, we simply put our faith in and submit to the righteousness of that blood. Through that past sacrifice, God justifies us and is then able to save us by his LIFE. Baptism into Jesus Christ is about death, but being raised with him by Holy Ghost baptism is about LIFE. And I'm not neglecting any aspect of soteriology. We can never have life until we have death. Until we put off the old man, we can never have the new man. What I'm refuting is the ridiculous notion fostered by some of my Apostolic brethren that one can be quickened by that life without having been pardoned in death!!: jolly

I read the testimony recently of a former Baptist pastor who received the Holy Ghost baptism. It revolutionized his life (actually ,he had no life prior to receiving it.) Many years later, someone introduced him to the truth of Baptism in Jesus. Name. He said, and I quote, "It was then that I realized that, even though I had had been filled with the Spirit, the blood of Jesus had never touched my life". In other words, he believed he was till in his sins and under condemnation!! BBBWWAAHHaahhaa! HOW EMBARRASSING for the Apostolic movement that any one of us could believe such utter nonsense and BLASPHEMY! And I'll say it again. If that brother's sins had not been forgiven, then that means he had not truly repented in God's eyes. And if he had not truly repented, then he had NEVER received the Holy Ghost.....PERIOD.