Dropped By & Somewhat Dismayed But Not Surprised

[Pendragon]

Originally Posted by CC1

...
So carry on with your weeping and wailing that this situation was not swept under the rug like it was in the old days but I have absolutley nothing to apologize about for starting this thread. I started it at the request of someone connected to that church by family in the past. You and tv1 are going to get along great!

Hear, hear!

[Ron]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Well...Brother Ron, you must be in a different church. I have not seen the same courtesy given to a mere saint as given to other ministers by ministers, unless they hate the other ministers, then all sorts of gossip and talk comes out into the community about them. I know what I am talking about. I am approaching my winter years and have given my life over to God when I was in my early-mid twenties. I've seen a lot of dirty things happen in this community concerning ministers with no restoration attempts made.

I know someone who was married into a minister's family that some ministers sit around at their dinner table and talk about something told to them in confidence by another saint. What does confidence mean? It means it goes NOWHERE but from one person to another. Ministers betray those confidences from the saint all the time.

Saints get pushed out of churches all the time because of gossip about their hair, their makeup, maybe they are shy and don't make friends easily...they are accused of being stuck-up or standoffish. Maybe their clothes are funny looking and appear somewhat ragged. I've seen these people literally go without fellowship from the rest because of their poverty. I've heard saints say nasty things about their fellow saints...nobody reprimands them. They disparage another's character. But because they happened to be a pastor's favorite, they are not reprimanded.

There is a lot of gossip and blame to go around...and many, but not all times it begins with the ministers.

I do say this though. If you are a minister who lives by a strict set of standards. You don't hate. You don't judge. You don't gossip. You show love to the unlovable. You are to be commended and I really mean that! I suspect that your congregation is very blessed and try to emulate that great man who teaches and preaches to them every service.

Not every minister achieves this greatness, but don't accuse the saints of gossiping who have been hurt by renegade ministers that feel that they are accountable to nobody....apparently not even God. The saints are recounting what they believe to be true. I would hold them accountable if they find that they are wrong to post their apologies here.

Now you will be hard pressed to find any scathing posts about TB's downfall on that thread by me. I even started a thread about restoration because I was disturbed that a man would be permanently banned from pastoring after any indiscretions on his part. However, I do believe that we have the right to discuss these things so that lessons may be learned and so that churches needing a pastor does not get stuck with someone who has done these things to another church and just pick up and move to some unsuspecting church body.


Some would go as far as to label discussion to be gossip.

Speaking of gossip....what do you think about all of the 'gossip' that came from the Brownsville Revival?

First off Brother, thank you for your response, even if you do not agree with me I appreciate the spirit in which it is posted & can see your view point.
I am a minister not Pastor, I am assisting a very good man I won to the Lord over 26 years ago.
I have learned a lot from him.
As for the discussion, we are only hearing one side of the discussion & that isn't right. It isn't fair to the Minister, his family, nor the people in that Church who may or may hold the same viewpoint.
I was taught not to munch on the minister & his family but to have respect & if there is a problem then there is processes in place to deal with it.

I don't know much about the Brownsville Revival.

Thanks again for responding & blessings to you.

[Godzchild]

Originally Posted by Pendragon

Hear, hear!

[Ron]

gos·sip

1. Rumor or talk of a personal, sensational, or intimate nature.
2. A person who habitually spreads intimate or private rumors or facts.

Talebearer : one that spreads gossip or rumors; also : tattletale

From the Bible:

Leviticus 19:16
Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour; I am the Lord.

Poverbs 18:
12 He that is void of wisdom despiseth his neighbour: but a man of understanding holdeth his peace.

13 A talebearer revealeth secrets: but he that is of a faithful spirit concealeth the matter.

Proverbs 26:20
Where no wood is, there the fire goeth out: so where there is no talebearer, the strife ceaseth.

Proverbs 26:22
The words of a talebearer are as wounds, and they go down into the innermost parts of the belly.


Romans 1:28-32 KJV
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Romans 1:28-32 Amplified
28 And so, since they did not see fit to acknowledge God or approve of Him or consider Him worth the knowing, God gave them over to a base and condemned mind to do things not proper or decent but loathsome,

29 Until they were filled (permeated and saturated) with every kind of unrighteousness, iniquity, grasping and covetous greed, and malice. [They were] full of envy and jealousy, murder, strife, deceit and treachery, ill will and cruel ways. [They were] secret backbiters and gossipers,

30 Slanderers, hateful to and hating God, full of insolence, arrogance, [and] boasting; inventors of new forms of evil, disobedient and undutiful to parents.

31 [They were] without understanding, conscienceless and faithless, heartless and loveless [and] merciless.

32 Though they are fully aware of God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them themselves but approve and applaud others who practice them.

MMM, MMMM, MMM.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Ron

First off Brother, thank you for your response, even if you do not agree with me I appreciate the spirit in which it is posted & can see your view point.
I am a minister not Pastor, I am assisting a very good man I won to the Lord over 26 years ago.
I have learned a lot from him.
As for the discussion, we are only hearing one side of the discussion & that isn't right. It isn't fair to the Minister, his family, nor the people in that Church who may or may hold the same viewpoint.
I was taught not to munch on the minister & his family but to have respect & if there is a problem then there is processes in place to deal with it.

I don't know much about the Brownsville Revival.

Thanks again for responding & blessings to you.

Thank You Brother Ron.

I am a female but often get accused of being male. I've had to live in a cruel world where I had to learn not to be scammed by people and to stick up for myself long before I married. Perhaps I've never lost that survival technique.

In this community where I live, there are many pastors who do not allow "assistant" pastors...except for a few who are maybe sons...son-in-laws...or grandsons. That is not accountability to me. Children will mostly always take the side of daddy or granddaddy.

The Brownsville Revival was a big thing that happened in Pensacola, Florida. Word of this so-called Great Revival in that "God was showering great blessings" upon the people reached far and wide across America. Millions and Millions of dollars were going into overflowing buckets. People traveled from near and far to come to see this "experience", only to find that the church was so packed that they could not get anywhere near the entrance.

Yet the people of the poor neighborhood that church was located in saw no improvement or sharing of all those 'blessings' the preachers said that God gave to them in the form of money. They've come to look upon that revival with contempt.

Here is a snippet of what somebody had to say after it all collapsed...or maybe just ran it's course. True blessings of God goes beyond worldly riches. When the worldly riches dissipated from the congregation, they all just scratched their heads wondering what really happened. How come nobody told them?

Snippet:Mr. Grady:

Please do not stop asking the questions. Someone must.

I was at Brownsville when Mike Murdock sold the Boaz Annointing. Nobody asked any questions.

When the pastor used over $100,000 that was raised to pay for landscaping because he wanted a "spirit of excellence," nobody asked any questions, even though staff members were being layed-off because the church didn't have the money to pay salaries.

When Tudor Bizmark put money on the new pastor's head and prophesied great wealth for him and the church, nobody asked any questions.

More recently when Bob Rogers promised everyone they could buy the blessings of Isaiah 58 with a $58 offering, nobody asked any questions.

When the pastor at Brownsville spent almost $100,000 remodeling an office he almost never used, nobody asked any questions.

When the congregation was lied to time and time again, nobody asked any questions.

When the pastor angrily resigned the church leaving a declining congregation swimming in debt, nobody asked any questions.

When he built a 3 million dollar home with the wealth from the revival nobody asked any questions.

Now, when God has sent him to Daphne to do the same thing to the willing weirdos over there, everyone is still afraid to ask questions.

I understand that there are certain ministries that have their own search and destroy teams and they are certainly out to get you, but please, please, keep asking the questions.

http://www.apostasywatch.com/Wolves/...0/Default.aspx

+++++

This can easily happen when any suave-talking minister from any denomination slips away from a church that is no longer useful to him.

He may have been sincere in his early walk with Christ, but somewhere the earthly goods and authority lifted his heart and head above the ground disregarding Paul's admonishing of humility and to live simply and equal with your brothers and sisters by giving of your excess to ease somebody else's poverty circumstances.

People need to beware, dump the one pastor-one congregation model and have several ministers ministering to that many people in a congregation. Perhaps the board ought to be the one who interviews and puts the candidates before the people to vote yea or nay. There are a lot of safeguards that can be put into place in Christ's church. We just need to ask God for all the wisdom He will impart to us in choosing these leaders.

Had somebody told the people of Brownsville in Pensacola that these 'men of God' pulled the same trick in Toronto, Canada, perhaps they would have sent them packing before it started.

There is no telling how many of the sincere Pentecostal churches in that area are suffering from the tactics of these men. They are gone and do not have to feel the backlash of sincere Pentecostal people from the lost that saw the hypocrisy in these services.

[Fiyahstarter]

Question....

Is reporting the news gossiping?

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Ron

I was taught not to munch on the minister & his family but to have respect & if there is a problem then there is processes in place to deal with it.

I don't know much about the Brownsville Revival.

Thanks again for responding & blessings to you.

Also, in this area, I have not seen much denominational process from superiors dealing with wayward ministers. One does not have to be caught in the act of adultery to be wayward. One can take money from a church fund designated for a special purpose and splurge on a family vacation with that money without discussing it first with the people who donated that money. That can be wayward...akin to stealing.

Yet...it happens and people are so meek and condescended into not questioning their pastor.

Just want you to know that not all ministers are as sincere and loving as you. I am very happy that you do not have to deal with things like that.

[Ron]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Thank You Brother Ron.

I am a female but often get accused of being male. I've had to live in a cruel world where I had to learn not to be scammed by people and to stick up for myself long before I married. Perhaps I've never lost that survival technique.

In this community where I live, there are many pastors who do not allow "assistant" pastors...except for a few who are maybe sons...son-in-laws...or grandsons. That is not accountability to me. Children will mostly always take the side of daddy or granddaddy.

The Brownsville Revival was a big thing that happened in Pensacola, Florida. Word of this so-called Great Revival in that "God was showering great blessings" upon the people reached far and wide across America. Millions and Millions of dollars were going into overflowing buckets. People traveled from near and far to come to see this "experience", only to find that the church was so packed that they could not get anywhere near the entrance.

Yet the people of the poor neighborhood that church was located in saw no improvement or sharing of all those 'blessings' the preachers said that God gave to them in the form of money. They've come to look upon that revival with contempt.

Here is a snippet of what somebody had to say after it all collapsed...or maybe just ran it's course. True blessings of God goes beyond worldly riches. When the worldly riches dissipated from the congregation, they all just scratched their heads wondering what really happened. How come nobody told them?

Snippet:Mr. Grady:

Please do not stop asking the questions. Someone must.

I was at Brownsville when Mike Murdock sold the Boaz Annointing. Nobody asked any questions.

When the pastor used over $100,000 that was raised to pay for landscaping because he wanted a "spirit of excellence," nobody asked any questions, even though staff members were being layed-off because the church didn't have the money to pay salaries.

When Tudor Bizmark put money on the new pastor's head and prophesied great wealth for him and the church, nobody asked any questions.

More recently when Bob Rogers promised everyone they could buy the blessings of Isaiah 58 with a $58 offering, nobody asked any questions.

When the pastor at Brownsville spent almost $100,000 remodeling an office he almost never used, nobody asked any questions.

When the congregation was lied to time and time again, nobody asked any questions.

When the pastor angrily resigned the church leaving a declining congregation swimming in debt, nobody asked any questions.

When he built a 3 million dollar home with the wealth from the revival nobody asked any questions.

Now, when God has sent him to Daphne to do the same thing to the willing weirdos over there, everyone is still afraid to ask questions.

I understand that there are certain ministries that have their own search and destroy teams and they are certainly out to get you, but please, please, keep asking the questions.

http://www.apostasywatch.com/Wolves/...0/Default.aspx

+++++

This can easily happen when any suave-talking minister from any denomination slips away from a church that is no longer useful to him.

He may have been sincere in his early walk with Christ, but somewhere the earthly goods and authority lifted his heart and head above the ground disregarding Paul's admonishing of humility and to live simply and equal with your brothers and sisters by giving of your excess to ease somebody else's poverty circumstances.

People need to beware, dump the one pastor-one congregation model and have several ministers ministering to that many people in a congregation. Perhaps the board ought to be the one who interviews and puts the candidates before the people to vote yea or nay. There are a lot of safeguards that can be put into place in Christ's church. We just need to ask God for all the wisdom He will impart to us in choosing these leaders.

Had somebody told the people of Brownsville in Pensacola that these 'men of God' pulled the same trick in Toronto, Canada, perhaps they would have sent them packing before it started.

There is no telling how many of the sincere Pentecostal churches in that area are suffering from the tactics of these men. They are gone and do not have to feel the backlash of sincere Pentecostal people from the lost that saw the hypocrisy in these services.

Sorry, I apoligise for the mistake.
I am not saying that anyone is innocent or guilty--that will come out in do time but my heart is heavey in particular for how people (generally speaking) can speak so easly or contemptuously of men of God & each other in these days.
I just feel, again I am repeating myself, that this is neither the place or the time to air dirty laundry.
It serves no ones interst except--The Devil.

As for what you commented on earlier, if only all of us, Ministers & Saints could act like Christians.

[tstew]

I have not read this thread, but I just wanted to step in and say it is very good to hear from you, Ron. I pray all is well with you, your family, and your church.

[Ron]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Also, in this area, I have not seen much denominational process from superiors dealing with wayward ministers. One does not have to be caught in the act of adultery to be wayward. One can take money from a church fund designated for a special purpose and splurge on a family vacation with that money without discussing it first with the people who donated that money. That can be wayward...akin to stealing.

Yet...it happens and people are so meek and condescended into not questioning their pastor.

Just want you to know that not all ministers are as sincere and loving as you. I am very happy that you do not have to deal with things like that.

Oh, I do have to deal with things, I live in a very Sin sick city & when doing outreach am used to being called vulgar names, & being accused of our God being gay!!!! Barf!
Thanks fot=r the kind words but if you talk to my first wife (and only one) she will tell you honestly that I have to work at it.
My Pastor now, the one I won to the Lord is found of telling all of us in the cogregation but especially leadership, that we are to deny ourselves, take up our cross & follow Jesus & do his work!

Blessings to you & yours!