Dropped By & Somewhat Dismayed But Not Surprised

[H Gang]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

BTW how come you guys don't show up when the men being discussed are Swaggart, Hinn, Popoff, Tilton, Paulk, Crouch, Haggard, Weeks, Long or Bynum?

Don't forget Clinton

[BeenThinkin]

Originally Posted by H Gang

Don't forget Clinton

Wasn't he licensed thru POA? JUST KIDDIN'

Been Thinkin

[Ron]

You guys are unbeleivable & rich, the amount ignorance is high if not off the chart!
One, I only belong to one Ministers forum & I haven't posted there but once or twice in the last year & nothing whatsoever to do with this situation or forum.
Ask one of the Ministers that belong to that forum & they can verify tha6t it is true, that makes whoever stated that, an out & out liar!
As the thread title states though, I am not surprised!

Prax, is one, trying to supercede the process of inv4estigation & calling for the ropes & tree (hence my lynching analogy which is bang on) & the Minister in question is already guilty! Hands down.

I wash my hands of this, you guys can go play with fire--just down get burned.
BTW, a lot of Bible characters may have been right but were either wrong in their application, or it wasn't their place!

[rgcraig]

Wow, Ron.

So, I guess it's Biblical to call your brothers and sister in Christ, ignorant.

Not sure what you've heard, but the jury is NOT still out.

Praying for the church and the Blacks would be a lot more productive.

[rgcraig]

Ron, maybe this will help you. The process was followed.

Originally Posted by Insider

I signed up just to respond to this thread. I am a member of TPC with intimate knowledge of what happened. I am not a board member but I am close fiends with 2 of the 3 original members. I wanted to respond early in the thread but my emotions were all over the place. I am glad I waited. My initial feelings of anger, hurt and shock were overwhelming when I first learned of the evidence that was discovered on the church's servers. TB's initial claim that this evidence was gathered illegally was false. What initially happened was one of the church computers was in need of repair. The repair technician happened to be a church member.

This person came across pictures and correspondences in texts and e-mails from TB's Blackberry and e-mail accounts. This person initially was hesitant to come forward. His accountability partner happened to be his boss. After a few weeks this person felt compelled to tell his accountability partner what he found. He eventually did and they both approached the church board with what they had discovered. The board and their accusers then (as is required by scripture) approached TB. "1 Timothy 5:19-20 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses."

He did not deny it. He asked the board to destroy the evidence. I will not go into details of what occurred next. Suffice it to say he admitted guilt. And the evidence found on the church servers was compelling to say the least. He was caught and was smart enough to know there was no way out. The next church service, after the board meeting with TB, I looked to with pure dread. I expected TB to be repentant. He was not. Instead he went into the now famous 'jackal rant'. I cannot adequately describe the feelings I had after that service. Shock, hurt, anger, just do not suffice.

I expected my pastor to seek forgiveness, to be contrite. Instead he was indignant and actually tried to bully his way through the situation by intimidation of the board members and his accusers. The following days were just terrible and I had a hard time sleeping. I could only think of the betrayal I felt. In the coming days and weeks, through many phone calls to people that were intimately involved (board members), I came to hear of other things besides the pics, texts and e-mails. There were church finances that were mishandled. It was devastating. How could this man that had been my pastor for years, a person I dined with, cried with, counseled with, laughed with, have done the things he was being accused of?

I wanted to think it was not true, but I knew the board members too well. They are upstanding, salt of the earth, godly men that live what they believe in faith and in their actions. I knew their character. One of them, at one time, would have taken a bullet for TB. Loved TB dearly, supported his ministry, loved his family. This man I saw cry over what he actually saw with his own eyes on the church servers. I knew he was telling us the truth. I have read a lot of posts here, not all, but several. It is sad that non-Apostlics have taken this opportunity to trash the UPCI and the Apostolic Movement.

The fact is, all men sin, regardless of faith. Was what TB did wrong? You bet. Should he be held accountable? Absolutely. But to hold one denomination or faith hostage for the actions of one man is foolish and folly. I guess since Peter and David failed we should hold all of Christianity accountable and throw out the Old and New Testaments. It is a silly, pathetic, small-minded person that would do so. Do I believe the message of UPCI. Whole-heartedly. Are we perfect. No. Truth is truth no matter what the situation. Please don't try and bait me into a debate on standards or legalism or the theology of the UPCI.

I won't bite. I'll leave that for others. I will pray for you and with you but I will not debate scripture on a public forum. No one wins. You want to talk one-on-one. Be glad to. But debates on a public forum such a FB or here is not productive and serves no purpose except self aggrandizement. There are those that will chose to not forgive TB for what he did. I am not one of them. I am past the anger stage. My tithes, offering and other monies I gave to TPC were given from my heart to God and his ministry. What TB or others did with that money, he or they, will be accountable to God for.

I did my scriptural duty. I will never forget what TB did and I will never be a part of a church that is family run by one man making all the decisions nor will I be part of a church that openly practices nepotism. Churches should be board driven by Godly men of character in concert with the bishop. We had a board, but it failed us. If you talked with the board members they will tell you they failed our church. But they trusted their pastor explicitly. As Ronald Reagan used to say, "Trust and Verify". This situation is truly pathetic in every way. But if we are to be forgiven we must forgive.

I have forgiven TB. I pray he has or will repent. I cannot say whether or not he has. From all indications it appears he has not and that is truly regrettable. I will not go into or be part of the rumor mill. Usually after these situations all types of non truths and innuendo are spewed by people just being hateful and vindictive. Christians should be forgiving and love the sinner but not the sin. There are souls at stake, and too many have suffered because of this. In the meeting before service, in TB's office, the Sunday of the 'jackal rant' TB made this statement. "Remember, Be Gentle with the Body". Never more truthful or ironic words have been spoken.

[rgcraig]

And, how a TPC church member feels about it being discussed:

Originally Posted by Insider

These are wise words. Typically I am against speaking of these types of church issues on a public forum. When this first came to light TPC members aired this all over FB. That was foolish and ill-advised. It was non-productive. It caused ill-feelings because there were those that had no idea what was going on and those that did. It caused a ton of hurt and mistrust. I chose not to participate. I also chose not to post here. At first it was very difficult to read posts here that were full of misinformation. And honestly some of the comments hurt. TPC is MY church family. But is way more than that. It is my life. I am very involved there.

In my bewilderment and confusion there were emotions I have never felt before. Having said that, and now that 3 months have passed I can talk about it with a clear head and balance of thought. I feel others can benefit from what happened. I am not here to throw darts or stones. My hope is that we ALL can learn a valuable lesson from what happened at TPC. The really sad fact is there are many churches, of all faiths, that are currently using the same paradigm that was previously being used at TPC. Unfettered reign of all aspects of the church being controlled by one person. This is NOT biblical and is a disaster waiting to happen. You give that much leeway and power to any man and the flesh will eventually take over.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Ron

Prax, is one, trying to supercede the process of inv4estigation & calling for the ropes & tree (hence my lynching analogy which is bang on) & the Minister in question is already guilty! Hands down.

This is just a bunch of malarky.

Have you ever read what takes place at a real lynching? Hideous. You are over embellishing.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by H Gang

Don't forget Clinton

He's a leader of our nation

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Ron

You guys are unbeleivable & rich, the amount ignorance is high if not off the chart!
One, I only belong to one Ministers forum & I haven't posted there but once or twice in the last year & nothing whatsoever to do with this situation or forum.
Ask one of the Ministers that belong to that forum & they can verify tha6t it is true, that makes whoever stated that, an out & out liar!
As the thread title states though, I am not surprised!

I wash my hands of this, you guys can go play with fire--just down get burned.
BTW, a lot of Bible characters may have been right but were either wrong in their application, or it wasn't their place!

Ah...a lie about me to others on this board. Would that make someone a gossiper and a hypocrite?

I never called for a rope & tree. Nor am I trying to supersede any process of investigation.

BTW didn't you already "wash your hands" of all this...as if you were done with this discussion?

[OnenessChild]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Ah...a lie about me to others on this board. Would that make someone a gossiper and a hypocrite?

I never called for a rope & tree. Nor am I trying to supersede any process of investigation.

BTW didn't you already "wash your hands" of all this...as if you were done with this discussion?

I do believe that was what was said