How Much Does Your 'church' Pay? - Page 3

MissBrattified · #21 01-23-2013, 08:28 AM

No WAY does the average pastor make 500K. That's a bogus number. As pointed out, very few churches even have the constituency to offer a large salary; let alone actually offer it.

seekerman · #22 01-23-2013, 12:06 PM

Wonder how much Paul made and what kind of donkey he drove.

seekerman · #23 01-23-2013, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deacon blues

A vast majority in the "romanist" system don't get paid near this

True, but the romanist system is ripe for the shearing of the sheep at so many different levels.

MissBrattified · #24 01-23-2013, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekerman

Wonder how much Paul made and what kind of donkey he drove.

Paul wasn't opposed to "elders" being compensated for their labor, particularly those who labour in the "word and doctrine." We just don't know how much he thought was appropriate.

"Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward."

Interestingly, "double honour" means "two fold [value, money paid, or dignity]. Also, "a valuing by which the price is fixed" and "honour which belongs or is shown to one." Considering the subsequent comment about a labourer being worthy of his reward, it's a safe assumption that he's talking about compensation for work.

While I agree with the concept that ALL Christians should be good stewards of what they've been given, I don't agree that ministers should be expected to work for free. I also think that all responsibility for setting the amount paid should be left to the local assembly, who are in the best position to determine what their leaders deserve.

tv1a · #25 01-23-2013, 12:24 PM

Nothing wrong with it as long as the congregation supports it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiyahstarter

$500k a year.
$50k yr/ food allowance
Gas cards

Is this what preachers make these days???

Good grief. Something's wrong.

rgcraig · #26 01-23-2013, 12:26 PM

Or the church doesn't know about it in some cases.

TV, are you a minister?

seekerman · #27 01-23-2013, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Paul wasn't opposed to "elders" being compensated for their labor, particularly those who labour in the "word and doctrine." We just don't know how much he thought was appropriate.

"Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward."

Interestingly, "double honour" means "two fold [value, money paid, or dignity]. Also, "a valuing by which the price is fixed" and "honour which belongs or is shown to one." Considering the subsequent comment about a labourer being worthy of his reward, it's a safe assumption that he's talking about compensation for work.

While I agree with the concept that ALL Christians should be good stewards of what they've been given, I don't agree that ministers should be expected to work for free. I also think that all responsibility for setting the amount paid should be left to the local assembly, who are in the best position to determine what their leaders deserve.

If we were to use the ox analogy, the ox is working and eating only what he's needing while treading out the corn.....which isn't a full time job for the ox. The ox isn't taking the corn by the sackfuls, he's only taking what's needed for food. So, don't muzzle the ox, let him eat, but the efforts of the ox doesn't result in the ox receiving bushel baskets of corn that he can't eat, the corn doesn't go to the ox, or is it for the ox, or else one would simply be planting and raising corn to feed to the ox while he's threshing.

The romanist system focuses on how much corn you can give to the ox when it's really not about the ox, it's about the corn which really isn't produced for the ox in the first place. In other words, using the analogy, the romanist system becomes a ox-centric, barn-centric system.

MissBrattified · #28 01-23-2013, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekerman

If we were to use the ox analogy, the ox is working and eating only what he's needing while treading out the corn.....which isn't a full time job for the ox. The ox isn't taking the corn by the sackfuls, he's only taking what's needed for food. So, don't muzzle the ox, let him eat, but the efforts of the ox doesn't result in the ox receiving bushel baskets of corn that he can't eat, the corn doesn't go to the ox, or is it for the ox, or else one would simply be planting and raising corn to feed to the ox while he's threshing.

The romanist system focuses on how much corn you can give to the ox when it's really not about the ox, it's about the corn which really isn't produced for the ox in the first place. In other words, using the analogy, the romanist system becomes a ox-centric, barn-centric system.

Paul added this, though: "the labourer is worthy of his reward" AND "let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour." Double honor is more than simply satisfying needs, if you assume that they are satisfying basic needs with "regular" honour.

I think it's good to call attention to problems when someone is taking advantage of the saints and the system; it's not good to judge pastors and compensated staff for simply receiving compensation. I have seen that right here on this board--the implication that if their heart was in the right place, they wouldn't need compensation at all.

Hoovie · #29 01-23-2013, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Paul added this, though: "the labourer is worthy of his reward" AND "let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour." Double honor is more than simply satisfying needs, if you assume that they are satisfying basic needs with "regular" honour.

I think it's good to call attention to problems when someone is taking advantage of the saints and the system; it's not good to judge pastors and compensated staff for simply receiving compensation. I have seen that right here on this board--the implication that if their heart was in the right place, they wouldn't need compensation at all.

I don't think we can assume from this that "honor" is shown by money.

RandyWayne · #30 01-23-2013, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Paul added this, though: "the labourer is worthy of his reward" AND "let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour." Double honor is more than simply satisfying needs, if you assume that they are satisfying basic needs with "regular" honour.

I think it's good to call attention to problems when someone is taking advantage of the saints and the system; it's not good to judge pastors and compensated staff for simply receiving compensation. I have seen that right here on this board--the implication that if their heart was in the right place, they wouldn't need compensation at all.

We had a pastor who used that line to pay himself exactly double that which was the average pay for the city (or state, or nation?) we lived in -can't remember which one it was. Although in some ways I admired him for not keeping it a secret. He didn't shout it from the platform but the books were open so many knew.