Why Are We Losing Young People?

[trialedbyfire]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Jason, I hear you, and I know duplicitous living and hypocrisy are never good...

However, I don't think the retention rates are any better for churches that don't preach against beards, TV or short sleeves... nor do they have lower divorce rates.

Just because standards are lowered in some churches does not mean they don't have their own issues with traditions and extra-Biblical foolishness, quite the contrary.

We can neither teach an overboard gospel or an "anything goes" gospel and it seems like the middle of the road we want to do it the Bible way churches have somewhat disappeared.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

A lot has been shared so far. I would SURMISE that most have formed opinions from personal experiences. But I am not sure that any of these things... division, standards et al is the crux of the matter.

Non Penetcostal and Non Standards churches face the same issues of their youth leaving...

Fact is, our schools and society are quickly entering a post Christian state... It's just that the youth have more courage to express it.

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Jason, I hear you, and I know duplicitous living and hypocrisy are never good...

However, I don't think the retention rates are any better for churches that don't preach against beards, TV or short sleeves... nor do they have lower divorce rates.

Hoovie, you're right that its not just pentecostals, the real problem is that not enough young people are actually being saved and entering into a real knowing/relationship with Jesus.

There are different symptoms amongst different groups, but the problem is the same, youth are not actually being saved. Amongst the baptist type groups youth are told to accept JEsus as their savior, or to make a confession of faith, but they are not taught to truly repent, to forsake their sin, and trust fully in Jesus Christ. They are taught a watered down Christinaity.

In the more conservative groups, such as pentecostalism, youth are taught that serving God is about lining up. So while on the surface they are much different from their more liberal christian counterparts, they also are robbed of a real relationship with Jesus Christ because they are not being told the full truth.

Thus both groups have problems keeping youth, not because one is too loose or the other is too strict, but because neither are really telling youth how to really know Jesus. And while the responsibility falls on the elders and leaders, the youth are not completely innocent, because they would rather give all their time to video games, facebook/twitter, and MTV, than open a Bible and allow God's Word to speak to them. They can figure out all the nuances of technology, invent things every time you turn around, and master complex things which require critical thinking, but they claim they can't understand the Bible? Hogwash.

One more problem is that the adults don't know Jesus, which is why these seeker type churches are exploding in America. Don't preach against sin, don't talk about the blood. Advertise and market the church, and make Jesus seem cool. All that does is manifest a lack of spiritual hunger and a cheap cotton candy substitiue for the real meat of the Word. But if the parents are flocking to that kind of Christianity, then why would the youth want a Christianity which demands they completely surrender to Christ?

I was a troubled youth, not raised in church. My parents divorced when I was 5 (they weren't in church ever) and the next 13 years were hell. But when I finally began to read the Bible, on my own, God drew me to Himself, and I understood that to follow Jesus I had to completely surrender my life to Him. He changed me, and here I am today, some 13 years later, not because some youth group, not because someone scared me, but because I experienced the life changing power of Jesus Christ, and now I can never be the same again!

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

Just because standards are lowered in some churches does not mean they don't have their own issues with traditions and extra-Biblical foolishness, quite the contrary.

Well, take your typical Southern Baptist Church as an example, no issues with trimming hair shorts TV or short sleeves, still high divorce and 80% leaving the faith by college... what gives?

We can neither teach an overboard gospel or an "anything goes" gospel and it seems like the middle of the road we want to do it the Bible way churches have somewhat disappeared.

I agree - Totally. Just not sure this in itself explains the youth leaving the Faith.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Hoovie, you're right that its not just pentecostals, the real problem is that not enough young people are actually being saved and entering into a real knowing/relationship with Jesus.

There are different symptoms amongst different groups, but the problem is the same, youth are not actually being saved. Amongst the baptist type groups youth are told to accept JEsus as their savior, or to make a confession of faith, but they are not taught to truly repent, to forsake their sin, and trust fully in Jesus Christ. They are taught a watered down Christinaity.

In the more conservative groups, such as pentecostalism, youth are taught that serving God is about lining up. So while on the surface they are much different from their more liberal christian counterparts, they also are robbed of a real relationship with Jesus Christ because they are not being told the full truth.

Thus both groups have problems keeping youth, not because one is too loose or the other is too strict, but because neither are really telling youth how to really know Jesus. And while the responsibility falls on the elders and leaders, the youth are not completely innocent, because they would rather give all their time to video games, facebook/twitter, and MTV, than open a Bible and allow God's Word to speak to them. They can figure out all the nuances of technology, invent things every time you turn around, and master complex things which require critical thinking, but they claim they can't understand the Bible? Hogwash.

One more problem is that the adults don't know Jesus, which is why these seeker type churches are exploding in America. Don't preach against sin, don't talk about the blood. Advertise and market the church, and make Jesus seem cool. All that does is manifest a lack of spiritual hunger and a cheap cotton candy substitiue for the real meat of the Word. But if the parents are flocking to that kind of Christianity, then why would the youth want a Christianity which demands they completely surrender to Christ?

I was a troubled youth, not raised in church. My parents divorced when I was 5 (they weren't in church ever) and the next 13 years were hell. But when I finally began to read the Bible, on my own, God drew me to Himself, and I understood that to follow Jesus I had to completely surrender my life to Him. He changed me, and here I am today, some 13 years later, not because some youth group, not because someone scared me, but because I experienced the life changing power of Jesus Christ, and now I can never be the same again!

Well put.

I think we have long glamorized evangelism and large numbers of people getting "saved". In the early church, proclaiming salvation in Christ often meant being persecuted - literally. I believe in the near future it will again no longer be "kewl" to be Christian.

Truly knowing Jesus is essential above all.
Secondly, I think as the USA fully embraces secularism and truly becomes POST Christian, the church will by default become more counter-cultural and withdraw from more of it's social systems - including schools in order to protect their young.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Jason, I hear you, and I know duplicitous living and hypocrisy are never good...
However, I don't think the retention rates are any better for churches that don't preach against beards, TV or short sleeves... nor do they have lower divorce rates.

And just to clarify, I'm not against the UPC or oneness pentecostalism in general. I do have some disagreements on doctrines*, but I still believe many oneness people are fine Christians, who live their lives in sincere love, and want to live lives that are pleasing to God. I still maintain friendships with UPCers and recently my wife attended a UPC choir concert at a UPC church with my blessing. In fact, I am even open to visiting the church (a moderate UPC which some of our friends attend) and am contemplating doing so, despite doctrinal differences. We don't believe in standards as salvation. My wife and daughters trim their hair and occasionally wear pants. But mostly we have kept the principles behind the standards (men look like men, women look like women, men have short hair, women long hair, dress modestly, make-up and jewelry should be in moderation, not excess, and I still don't allow the girls in my household to wear make up which accentuates the eyes or lips...in fact I don't let me daughters wear any make up, and won't until they are in their mid teens).

In addition to these things, I still believe in a oneness theology, and water baptism in Jesus name (I even baptized the most recent convert in the Bible Church in Jesus name, with approval from the elders). The church I attend is "trinitarian" but went through a split (over calvinism) and thus had to write a new doctrinal statement, which I was heavily involved in, and in the end 95% of my writings were used. (see fellowshipbiblechurchntx.org)

I'm not saying that for people to agree or disagree with me, I'm just saying that to offer perspective. Alot of people who leave are bitter, and develop a hatred for oneness pentecostals. And an especially distasteful constant mocking on internet forums such as this and facebook. I don't believe I'm like that, but I realize my first post in theis thread could be misunderstood if a person didn't know where I was coming from.


*differences of beliefs are justification by faith, initial evidence, standards as absolutes, rather than principles, tithing, the salvation of trinitarians, and the importance on external physical manifestations in worship.

[houston]

Maybe they leave because you don't deliver the goods. Maybe they leave because you hold them to a standard that you yourself can't keep. Maybe they leave because they can see through the misinterpretations and proof texting. Maybe they leave because they are sick of the hypocrisy and lies.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

They are losing the younger generation, because there are two predominent influences calling the young people in these times. One is compromise. Embrace wordliness under the guise of enlightened Christianity. The other is a sincere call for truth, which neccesitates a return to the Word of God. Not the Word of God plus tradition, the Word of God sans tradition. This young generation isn't just going to put up with someone shoving unbiblical absolutes down our throats. If you can't defend your doctrines against scrutiny, then why would we want to embrace that mickey mouse theology and look like fools when a real Bible student takes us to task for our poor exegesis, misunderstanding of context and cultural norms, and overall poor hermenutic?

The younger genreation wants to declare truth to a genereation that doesn't belive there is such a thing. But there is such a thing! There is a truth that is more powerful, more dynamic, than all the philosphies of man put together. A life changing truth, that is more than a philosphy, but is the very power of God himself. That truth is the gospel of Jesus Christ, to preach Christ crucified and resurrected, and the implications that has for everyone whether they accept the offer of grace or reject it.

We can declare the truth of the gospel in the person and power of Christ. We can stand in the face of the most bitter persecution and preach the gospel and defend the truthfulness thereof. We don't have to create an "environment of worship" or have a group of people who will amen our every point, even when those points are absolutely unbibilical and just buzz words and recycled phrases. We must have a truth that can stand up to scrutiny, and the harshest persecution. We can declare the gospel of Jesus Christ, and the power of a living Christ to save souls and change lives even in 2013. What we can't declare and stand up to scrutiny, and has no power to change lives, are the misguided traditions of men. I can't declare in a prison (where everyone wears short sleeved jump suits) that if you don't wear long sleeves your're going to hell, or if you have a beard you're going to hell, or if you watch TV you're going to hell. I can't declare to an intellectual man that a person ought not to have a TV, but there is nothing wrong with the internet. Telling sinners that they can't wear shorts doesn't deliver from sin. Oh, but they say "no, no, no, you don't tell them that at first." OK, right. You hook them, and don't concern yourself with the minutia of standards, but then after a year or so, you throw it on them as heaven/hell issues. I can't do that. Not only is it deceitful, but more importantly it is unbiblical. I preach repentance from sin. Fornication, adultery, homosexuality, theft, lying, greed, pride, etc. If wearing shorts, trimming hair, and watching TV are sins, then they need to be repented of at the time of conversion, not much later on using the bait and switch method. They have added so much to the gospel that it becomes drowned out by the noise, and becomes unrecognizable, yet when we raise a red flag to ask some questions we are shouted down and sat down. We are called rebellious, compromisers, charismatics, and warned that our families will be torn apart. Divorces will happen, kids will end up on drugs, our ministries will be destroyed, God will write ICHABOD on our lives, we'll believe a strong delusion and be damned, and finally be forever separated from God, burning in hell......all because we don't bow the knee to their standards. And then folks say "why is the younger generation leaving?"

[tv1a]

My kids were on the path of leaving church at 9 years old. They saw thru the phoniness of the gospel of skirts and hair. They saw preachers leave under a cloud of suspicion and church leaders gossip. They were biding their time, waiting for the day they turned 18.

Someone invited my family to a youth event @ Rod Parsley's church. Barlow Girl Ty Tribbett, Family Force Five were there. Tribbett preached about Biblical holiness. Flash forward six years. My son healed of Asperger's leads worship at our church and plays the keys. My daughter is an annointed drummer. They have ministered to worldwide audiences.

Young people reject your message because they dont see you live the message.

Originally Posted by houston

Maybe they leave because you don't deliver the goods. Maybe they leave because you hold them to a standard that you yourself can't keep. Maybe they leave because they can see through the misinterpretations and proof texting. Maybe they leave because they are sick of the hypocrisy and lies.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

And just to clarify, I'm not against the UPC or oneness pentecostalism in general. I do have some disagreements on doctrines*,

. . . . . .


*differences of beliefs are justification by faith, initial evidence, standards as absolutes, rather than principles, tithing, the salvation of trinitarians, and the importance on external physical manifestations in worship.

So your saying you only have SOME disagreements with them?

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Do you consider your daughters to be newbies?

No.

I try to teach them that a child of God is just that.

Whether they have walked in the truth 1 year or since birth.

The birthers are just as apt to fall as the newbies.

I would even say the newbies have a greater testimony of where God has brought them from.

But either way, its like a childish social group. and most parents I have seen feed it.