Cutting Back On 'Church' Services

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

I appreciate the condescension, not above engaging in it myself sometimes.....but, I stand by my point.....church these days has become about pleasing the attendee, not reaching sinners.......at least in my experience.

Change churches? Change your church? Start a new church that is doing it right?

As a former pastor, I got real tired of hearing some of the old timers complain about the new music, the temperature, the volume, blah blah blah.....we use nomenclature familiar to the saint and not the sinner.....we do things that saints are comfortable with, not necessarily the sinner.......and in a previous post, I made the observation that in a very unscientific study (polled the congregation I used to pastor) a VAST majority of saints had never won another soul to the Lord.

That the vast majority have not won a soul does not really affect my point of why we assemble and what we do at "church".

Some are harvesters (Jesus specifically said to pray for them). Some are teachers. Some are encouragers. We have different gifts

1Co 14:26 Then how is it, brothers? When you come together, each one of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be for building up.

Rom 12:4 For even as we have many members in one body, and all members do not have the same function,
Rom 12:5 so we the many are one body in Christ, and each one members of one another.
Rom 12:6 Then having gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, if prophecy, according to the proportion of faith;
Rom 12:7 or ministry, in the ministry; or he who teaches, in the teaching;
Rom 12:8 or he who exhorts, in the encouragement; or he who shares, in simplicity; or he who takes the lead, in diligence; or he who shows mercy, in cheerfulness.
Rom 12:9 Let love be without hypocrisy, shrinking from evil, cleaving to good;
Rom 12:10 in brotherly love to one another, loving fervently, having led one another in honor.
Rom 12:11 As to diligence, not slothful, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord;
Rom 12:12 rejoicing in hope, patient in affliction, steadfastly continuing in prayer,
Rom 12:13 distributing to the needs of the saints, pursuing hospitality.

So, whereas I don't have a problem going to church, I DO have a problem when saints only want to do that, and not fulfill the Great Commission.

Where else are they going to be taught to do MORE than just "go to church"?

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Change churches? Change your church? Start a new church that is doing it right?


That the vast majority have not won a soul does not really affect my point of why we assemble and what we do at "church".

Some are harvesters (Jesus specifically said to pray for them). Some are teachers. Some are encouragers. We have different gifts

1Co 14:26 Then how is it, brothers? When you come together, each one of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be for building up.

Rom 12:4 For even as we have many members in one body, and all members do not have the same function,
Rom 12:5 so we the many are one body in Christ, and each one members of one another.
Rom 12:6 Then having gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, if prophecy, according to the proportion of faith;
Rom 12:7 or ministry, in the ministry; or he who teaches, in the teaching;
Rom 12:8 or he who exhorts, in the encouragement; or he who shares, in simplicity; or he who takes the lead, in diligence; or he who shows mercy, in cheerfulness.
Rom 12:9 Let love be without hypocrisy, shrinking from evil, cleaving to good;
Rom 12:10 in brotherly love to one another, loving fervently, having led one another in honor.
Rom 12:11 As to diligence, not slothful, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord;
Rom 12:12 rejoicing in hope, patient in affliction, steadfastly continuing in prayer,
Rom 12:13 distributing to the needs of the saints, pursuing hospitality.


Where else are they going to be taught to do MORE than just "go to church"?

Are you saying that winning souls is a gift, and not every Christian is charged to do it?

[BeenThinkin]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

I appreciate the condescension, not above engaging in it myself sometimes.....but, I stand by my point.....church these days has become about pleasing the attendee, not reaching sinners.......at least in my experience.

As a former pastor, I got real tired of hearing some of the old timers complain about the new music, the temperature, the volume, blah blah blah.....we use nomenclature familiar to the saint and not the sinner.....we do things that saints are comfortable with, not necessarily the sinner.......and in a previous post, I made the observation that in a very unscientific study (polled the congregation I used to pastor) a VAST majority of saints had never won another soul to the Lord.

So, whereas I don't have a problem going to church, I DO have a problem when saints only want to do that, and not fulfill the Great Commission.

Michael, you need to pastor again. You could make up a congregation from AFF. The only problem would be you would have to have more than 1 service! You would have to have a service "in your home" for those who no longer believe in a church building. And then there are those who, "if you didn't have a building" wouldn't go. But, that would be okay. Just think of how much fun it would be pastoring, Apostolics, X-Apostolics, AOG's, Agnostics, Cons, UltraCons, Liberals, Oneness, Trinitarians, Dispensationalists, Preterists, Jesus Only, etc. etc. etc. If you would have service on the night I wanted you to have it on I might come myself. By the way, could you lay out a statement of beliefs for this kind of group?

Been Thinkin

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Are you saying that winning souls is a gift, and not every Christian is charged to do it?

Im saying some are a lot better at it than others. Take for example someone that is shy and not well equipped to go up to a stranger and witness to them.

They might be witnesses in other ways to their family and co workers by their example and by dropping "seed" here and there and yet never get credited with "being a soul winner", despite them daily praying for souls and those that are missionaries.

1Co 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase.
1Co 3:7 So then neither is he who plants anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.
1Co 3:8 So he planting, and he watering, are one, and each one shall receive his own reward according to his own labor.
1Co 3:9 For of God we are fellow-workers, a field of God, and you are a building of God.
1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given to me, as a wise master builder, I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let every man be careful how he builds on it.
1Co 3:11 For any other foundation can no one lay than the one being laid, who is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 And if anyone builds on this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble,
1Co 3:13 each one's work shall be revealed. For the Day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try each one's work as to what kind it is.
1Co 3:14 If anyone's work which he built remains, he shall receive a reward.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Im saying some are a lot better at it than others. Take for example someone that is shy and not well equipped to go up to a stranger and witness to them.

They might be witnesses in other ways to their family and co workers by their example and by dropping "seed" here and there and yet never get credited with "being a soul winner", despite them daily praying for souls and those that are missionaries.

1Co 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase.
1Co 3:7 So then neither is he who plants anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.
1Co 3:8 So he planting, and he watering, are one, and each one shall receive his own reward according to his own labor.
1Co 3:9 For of God we are fellow-workers, a field of God, and you are a building of God.
1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given to me, as a wise master builder, I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let every man be careful how he builds on it.
1Co 3:11 For any other foundation can no one lay than the one being laid, who is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 And if anyone builds on this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble,
1Co 3:13 each one's work shall be revealed. For the Day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try each one's work as to what kind it is.
1Co 3:14 If anyone's work which he built remains, he shall receive a reward.

Fair enough, and as long as each Christian is living their witness to the world, then they are fulfilling the Great Commission.


I have no problem with church, and don't even have a problem with church being a social experience. It should be a place of fellowship, reinforcement, encouragement, healing, teaching, and all of those other things that the Bible mentions. My issue once again is with Christians who think that as long as they go to church, that's all there is to it.


On this point, I'm sure we will have to agree to disagree.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Fair enough, and as long as each Christian is living their witness to the world, then they are fulfilling the Great Commission.


I have no problem with church, and don't even have a problem with church being a social experience. It should be a place of fellowship, reinforcement, encouragement, healing, teaching, and all of those other things that the Bible mentions. My issue once again is with Christians who think that as long as they go to church, that's all there is to it.


On this point, I'm sure we will have to agree to disagree.

Christians should not think "that's all there is to it", but then again where else are they going to learn that it should NOT be "all there is to it"? It should be at a church meeting or bible study..

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Christians should not think "that's all there is to it", but then again where else are they going to learn that it should NOT be "all there is to it"? It should be at a church meeting or bible study..

True.....but, how many times over the course of the years should they have to keep learning the same lesson?

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by BeenThinkin

Michael, you need to pastor again. You could make up a congregation from AFF. The only problem would be you would have to have more than 1 service! You would have to have a service "in your home" for those who no longer believe in a church building. And then there are those who, "if you didn't have a building" wouldn't go. But, that would be okay. Just think of how much fun it would be pastoring, Apostolics, X-Apostolics, AOG's, Agnostics, Cons, UltraCons, Liberals, Oneness, Trinitarians, Dispensationalists, Preterists, Jesus Only, etc. etc. etc. If you would have service on the night I wanted you to have it on I might come myself. By the way, could you lay out a statement of beliefs for this kind of group?

Been Thinkin

Uh, no thank you, my friend.....I'll leave that one to you!

[MawMaw]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Yes!!!!

Actually, no. There was a lunch after the service, but not pot luck. And it's not why I went. Was visiting my folks in CA, and they hadn't been able to go in about six months. Tried a few times, but just getting ready to go wore them out so they stayed home. So I helped them. Lunch was good, too.

That was so nice of you Timmy. I'm sure your parents appreciated
that so much. Is there no one else to help take them to church when
you are not around. I assume you live a good distance from them?

[MawMaw]

Our church still has 3 services per week and then we also have
lots of revivals. I've often wondered if I'd like the 1 service per
Sunday. Really not sure.