Tha Fall of Man and the Law of Sin

[Esaias]

Livelystone, are you suggesting that Christ did not inherit a human nature from Eve?

Do you have a Mennonite background?

[Livelystone]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Livelystone, are you suggesting that Christ did not inherit a human nature from Eve?

Do you have a Mennonite background?

Not a Mennonite nor a member of any other organized form of religion. I have been to many of them and in some cases have traveled far in hopes of finding one I would like to attend a regular basis.

Not sure what you mean by human nature? Man (male and female) is a physical body with a spirit that has a soul, and Jesus had a physical body with a spirit and soul residing within the same as man does. However, there is a significant difference between the Holy Spirit and the spirit of man.

The spirit of man comes within the seed of man handed down from their earthly father whereas the spirit for the seed that is Christ came from God in heaven.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Livelystone

Not a Mennonite nor a member of any other organized form of religion. I have been to many of them and in some cases have traveled far in hopes of finding one I would like to attend a regular basis.

Not sure what you mean by human nature? Man (male and female) is a physical body with a spirit that has a soul, and Jesus had a physical body with a spirit and soul residing within the same as man does. However, there is a significant difference between the Holy Spirit and the spirit of man.

The spirit of man comes within the seed of man handed down from their earthly father whereas the spirit for the seed that is Christ came from God in heaven.

Menno Simons believed that Christ did not inherit a human nature from his mother, Mary. Similar to the way Teklemarian taught that God 'created' the flesh of Jesus in Mary's womb. This doctrine is similar to the Immaculate Conception doctrine of the Catholics in regard to Mary. They hold that Mary was conceived without original sin so she could bear Christ without passing it on to Him.

Teklemarian taught that Christ's flesh was divine, and therefore free from original sin.

This seems to contradict the Bible which as far as I can tell makes no distinction between Christ's human nature and ours, which in turn leads to the conclusion that inherited original sin, as some sort of substance inhering in the human nature itself and which is passed on to children, is a false doctrine.

BTW, I asked about Christ inheriting a human nature from Eve, I meant from Mary. Sorry.

[Livelystone]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Menno Simons believed that Christ did not inherit a human nature from his mother, Mary. Similar to the way Teklemarian taught that God 'created' the flesh of Jesus in Mary's womb. This doctrine is similar to the Immaculate Conception doctrine of the Catholics in regard to Mary. They hold that Mary was conceived without original sin so she could bear Christ without passing it on to Him.

Teklemarian taught that Christ's flesh was divine, and therefore free from original sin.

This seems to contradict the Bible which as far as I can tell makes no distinction between Christ's human nature and ours, which in turn leads to the conclusion that inherited original sin, as some sort of substance inhering in the human nature itself and which is passed on to children, is a false doctrine.

BTW, I asked about Christ inheriting a human nature from Eve, I meant from Mary. Sorry.

I am confident that Mary's DNA would've appeared in the nourishment that she supplied for the unborn baby Jesus. However, as the Scripture say the life is in the blood and the blood of Mary was kept separate from the unborn baby Jesus by the placenta.

I do not buy into the Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception and Mary being without sin. For that matter other than the identity of Jesus, and that he died on the cross for our sins is about the only teaching I still carry from being raised in a Christian upbringing.

As a very young teenager I told my parents I did not want to be saved anymore so I could be spared the regimental guidelines of a fundamental church and become more like the rest of the kids I went to school with.

Fast forward to when I was 45 years old I had a car accident in which I flatlined and spent some time on the other side that I remember very well. Unfortunately it is contrary to what most churches teach concerning the resurrection, yet because it supports the Bible, groups formed exclusively by people who have also had what could be termed as out of body experiences, also reject what I say because it supports the Bible that they reject.

Consequently, after unsuccessfully searching for a place to worship and turning to God asking him were do I go to find the truth, for the 1st time I heard his voice and he told me not to go anywhere but come to Him. That is what I have done, albeit it has not been without a price.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Menno Simons believed that Christ did not inherit a human nature from his mother, Mary. Similar to the way Teklemarian taught that God 'created' the flesh of Jesus in Mary's womb. This doctrine is similar to the Immaculate Conception doctrine of the Catholics in regard to Mary. They hold that Mary was conceived without original sin so she could bear Christ without passing it on to Him.

Teklemarian taught that Christ's flesh was divine, and therefore free from original sin.

This seems to contradict the Bible which as far as I can tell makes no distinction between Christ's human nature and ours, which in turn leads to the conclusion that inherited original sin, as some sort of substance inhering in the human nature itself and which is passed on to children, is a false doctrine.

BTW, I asked about Christ inheriting a human nature from Eve, I meant from Mary. Sorry.

So do you believe that babies are born innocent?
If so when do they become corrupted?
Also how are they corrupted?

* By corruped I mean sinful.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Livelystone

How repugnant...

Blessings anyway

Doug

Ah, thank you for the timely demo there. Look, impeaching the Doctrine of Original Sin does not deny any of your points; it merely dismantles the notion, fostered by those you have not yet become aware of, but in whose thrall your are completely, that you are a worthless thing, and God does not love you. Sure, it isn't put that way, but that is the end result.

It describes our fascination with skulls. It's why we like to wear black. And yet, you could ask 100 people "What happened at the Council of Trent?" and I'm willing to bet that you would not get a single correct reply. Wadr, I don't think you could answer correctly. The answer has irrevocably changed your life forever; and the knowledge has been intentionally obscured from you.

Christ died for our sins, which every human will inevitably commit, due to Adam's sin nature; but this has been twisted into a dark, indefinable 'Doctrine' meant only to enslave. Peace to you.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Luke

If so when do they become corrupted?
Also how are they corrupted?

* By corruped I mean sinful.

"...and so I WILL stop contending with man, who is evil from his youth..."

[bbyrd009]

Although I must grant the difference in the Law of sin and the doctrine of Original Sin; they are two different things; but unfortunately, what comes down to us is OS.

[Livelystone]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

Ah, thank you for the timely demo there. Look, impeaching the Doctrine of Original Sin does not deny any of your points; it merely dismantles the notion, fostered by those you have not yet become aware of, but in whose thrall your are completely, that you are a worthless thing, and God does not love you. Sure, it isn't put that way, but that is the end result.

It describes our fascination with skulls. It's why we like to wear black. And yet, you could ask 100 people "What happened at the Council of Trent?" and I'm willing to bet that you would not get a single correct reply. Wadr, I don't think you could answer correctly. The answer has irrevocably changed your life forever; and the knowledge has been intentionally obscured from you.

Christ died for our sins, which every human will inevitably commit, due to Adam's sin nature; but this has been twisted into a dark, indefinable 'Doctrine' meant only to enslave. Peace to you.

Peace to you as well

I'm not getting everything you are saying but I will take the blame for that. Since you seem to be a little more perceptive than I am let me try this approach.

Sin is an ugly thing anyway you look at it until viewed as part of the overall plan that includes the future for all of mankind and not just a few individuals. (As in Jesus is the saviour of the world and especially of those who believe; 1 Timothy 4:10)

Because God is a just and balanced God, everything has an opposite therefore we have the knowledge of both good and evil. Because the law of polarity is a universal law meaning that opposites within a given atmosphere must attract each other. Consequently and by a "universal law" Satan had to appear in the garden as well as he had to try to tempt Jesus. In other words the appearance of evil is a given the same as darkness follows after light. Quite obviously God being the author of all universal law knew this before the beginning

To make a long story short, (for now) because evil was successful in deceiving Eve who Adam chose to follow over the commandment of God, evil took on sin that brought on a condemnation of death to the one flesh that Adam and Eve became. Amen? i think so!

Because sin was condemned to death all evil is going to die here on earth because this is where it has been sentenced to death thus creating a place where father and son can abide together where evil will never appear again because it has already died the sentence it was given here.

God was not caught by surprise when Adam sinned, and for that matter Adam's sin was part of the plan that would result in evil being sentenced to death. In my opinion once we understand this we can go about seeing how God's ultimate plan for man had to be kept hidden throughout the ages. However when fully understood by those who will be first to overcome sin, will be shown onto the world by the church who through knowledge and grace from above has already overcome sin.

[bbyrd009]

Amen.