Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Jay

Bbyrd, tongues happens to be one of those 'signs and wonders' that you keep demanding. Further, I have seen many miracles of healing performed in those 'death-centered' churches that you dislike so much.

I never wished to denigrate any genuine experiences JAy, but I am sceptical, as it is supposed to be "tongues, with other diverse miracles," and what we--typically--get, is babbling, after a carefully orchestrated and built-up emotional display, with some appropriate ooga-booga by the witch doctor at the 'altar.'

I don't mean in every case, but I do mean in the--vast--majority of cases. If you were ever witness to miracles of healing, which I do not doubt, then I would say that you were either in attendance upon someone with a gift of healing, or were not in a death-centered church (ie, a church which had practically--nevermind what the bylaws say--disregarded their churches established, founding principle of adhering to the doctrine of Original Sin.

You might be quite surprised to note that virtually every established 'church' in America has this in their...charter, whatever.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Great post!

I would disagree with one statement. I don't believe God is ever "taking His church back". I believe the Church is ever moving forward. God builds on what has already been established. Today's Church is more of what God wants than it's ever been. Tomorrow it will be more so.

A Big AMEN...and a corollary is that God does not, and will not ever, need to engage in some 'final battle' for control of the earth; you might want to revise your pov @ "Armaggedon," which is (by definition) not what the popular scenario is. I agree with DB in that the Church is ever moving forward--the One built of Living Stones, that is--and just so one may know, they are not waiting around for Christ to majikally appear in the clouds. See that the only thing that is "waiting" is Christ, for the bride to be prepared.

[larrylyates]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

It will be hard to hold a mirror up for this, for someone from the West, who has not experienced creation-centered Christianity. The best that I can do is to reiterate that a doctrine, that of Original Sin, was seized upon over the objections of its author, about 400or so years ago, at the Council of Trent.

While it has been completely obscured from us now--intentionally, I have no doubt--this effectively divided the Western world, which then consisted of Western Europe and (pointedly) a nascent little upstart nation, the USA; to the point that one cannot now have a conversation about the Law of sin and death--accepted theology, even in a creation centered model, and backed by Scripture--w/o said "doctrine" entering into the conversation; and generally right from the first reply of the Westerner.

Again, although the connection might be initially hard to make, this is why we have such a fascination with skulls--it's why we like to wear black. This doctrine has completely permeated every area of our society now. I do not post this to change anyones mind--it is too late for that; we have long passed that tipping point--but so that a remnant might recognize, or 'hear,' when the effects become unavoidably evident for all.

While the difference in the Law and the doctrine might seem insignificant, an exercise in semantics, I offer as a type of proof your sunday school education; like making Sunday "the Lord's day," and turning Passover into "Easter" (Ishtar worship), how many times did anyone cover this with you then? Exactly 0, is my guess--in church school. Them what's got ears...


Understand that this does not happen by accident; it takes a sustained effort, over generations.

http://www.wikihow.com/Recognize-the...ristian-Models

Will give anyone interested a primer, of sorts.

I am afraid this one is beyond my field. I must leave this for another to develop. What I can do, for those who may be thread surfing and unwilling to take the time to look closely at the link you provide (well worth the effort, in understanding your frame of reference and theological foundation), I can provide a brief introduction to Matthew Fox, for those unfamiliar with him or his work. This is also taken from Wikipedia.

Matthew Fox (born 1940) is an American priest and theologian.[1] Formerly a member of the Dominican Order within the Roman Catholic Church, he is now a member of the Episcopal Church. Fox was an early and influential exponent of a movement that came to be known as Creation Spirituality. The movement draws inspiration from the mystical philosophies of such medieval Catholic visionaries as Hildegard of Bingen, Thomas Aquinas, Saint Francis of Assisi, Julian of Norwich, Dante Alighieri, Meister Eckhart and Nicholas of Cusa, as well as the wisdom traditions of Christian scriptures. Creation Spirituality is also strongly aligned with ecological and environmental movements of the late 20th century and embraces numerous spiritual traditions around the world, including Buddhism, Judaism, Sufism, and Native American spirituality, with a focus on "deep ecumenism".

Fox has written 30 books that have sold millions of copies and by the mid-1990s had attracted a "huge and diverse following".[2] He was likened by academic theologians in one New York Times article to the controversial and influential 20th century Jesuit priest, philosopher and paleontologist Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, particularly for his interpretations of issues such as the doctrine of original sin and the Cosmic Christ and for the resulting conflicts with church authorities.[3]


The full article can be found at:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Fox_%28priest%29