Alienated Church: Father's and Mother's day

[Sweet Pea]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Sounds exactly like what Prax would like to see happen. I am surprised that so many have misread what he's been trying to say.

Your church handles it very good.

[Sweet Pea]

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted

Some people are so selfish they can't even give honor and respect to other on their special day. My parents are gone so mothers day and fathers day are hard for me, but I give honor to others on their special day.

Today it seems that everything is "about me" We live in a a VERY selfish self centered generation.

I agree with Renda! Prax is NOT saying it's all about him, he is saying that the church should recognize the fact that they are alienating some people by the way they conduct these special services!!!

I have children, both my parents are still living, my hubby is a wonderful Dad; however, this past Sunday's service made me very uncomfortable. There were people in the congregation who I KNOW felt uncomfortable because even the message was geared only toward the dads. The young man sitting behind me was very uncomfortable. He is not a dad and may not ever be. He did not have a "good" dad.

WH - I think you are out of line with your perception of what we have been saying. If it were "all about me" - I would be glad to have all the hoopla that goes on. It's about those who are made to feel as 2nd class citizens because their dad wasn't so great - or they are aren't dads.

If you want to have those kinds of services, fine and dandy - but realize that you ARE alienating some people!!!

[Whole Hearted]

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

I agree with Renda! Prax is NOT saying it's all about him, he is saying that the church should recognize the fact that they are alienating some people by the way they conduct these special services!!!

I have children, both my parents are still living, my hubby is a wonderful Dad; however, this past Sunday's service made me very uncomfortable. There were people in the congregation who I KNOW felt uncomfortable because even the message was geared only toward the dads. The young man sitting behind me was very uncomfortable. He is not a dad and may not ever be. He did not have a "good" dad.

WH - I think you are out of line with your perception of what we have been saying. If it were "all about me" - I would be glad to have all the hoopla that goes on. It's about those who are made to feel as 2nd class citizens because their dad wasn't so great - or they are aren't dads.

If you want to have those kinds of services, fine and dandy - but realize that you ARE alienating some people!!!

So we should have youth service then.

We should honor vet on vertains day.

Also the bible doesn't say honor your parents if you have or had good ones, to honor them.

I always tie fathers day int my message. It is a great chance to preach on our heavenly father and how He cares for us and how as christian fathers we should care for ours. And if we have no earthly father for what ever reason we do have a heavenly one. All can gleen form the message about fathers not just those who are fathers.

[Esaias]

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Matthew 23:9

[Sweet Pea]

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted

So we should have youth service then.

We should honor vet on vertains day.

Also the bible doesn't say honor your parents if you have or had good ones, to honor them.

I always tie fathers day int my message. It is a great chance to preach on our heavenly father and how He cares for us and how as christian fathers we should care for ours. And if we have no earthly father for what ever reason we do have a heavenly one. All can gleen form the message about fathers not just those who are fathers.

Special services are a good thing - IF (and a mighty big IF) they are done properly and not done in a way that alienates others. We have honored veterans, but the service was a "God and Country" service. It included everyone.

I think several have missed the point - no one is saying don't honor - but honor in such a way that no one attending is made to feel as a 2nd class citizen. And ALWAYS offer the gospel to those who are unsaved!

[Nitehawk013]

So no matter what you do or say in church, make sure that no one is ever uncomfortable or alienated? Thats impossible, not to mention just a plain ol dumb way to approach service.

Look, I completely understand what Prax's stance on this is. He thinks service should spend a moment recognizing dads, but then move on and have actual service. This way people like him don't have to sit through a, God forbid, program about dads and don't feel alienated.

I understand it, but there is no rationale for anyone getting as bent out of shape over a non-issue as he has over a silly father's day service. Even if your dad on earth stunk to high heavens, was abusive, drunk etc...you still had a dad. That means on Father's day you shouldn't feel alienated...you had/have a dad even if he was a lousy one.

If anything, pay attention on father's day to the fathers in the church and realize what a good dad should be. Learn from it, so you will be a better father. If you are not and never will be a father...I don't know what to tell you. Suck it up and go to church. WE are supposed to be part of the church, part of the TEAM, and sometimes you do what is best for the whole team even if it really just is an annoyance to you.

So I'm sorry, but this whole "Im not a father and I thinkit alienates a few peopel so I won't go to my church on fatehrs day" attitude IS just childish and selfish no matter how you spin it. I get sick of hearing about stupid things like tithing, but I don't just skip church when I know Pastor will be teachign about it. It's MY church so I need to suck it up and be there because I am part of the team.

[Sweet Pea]

I give up! We all have had different experiences and opinions and I think that many of us are saying the same thing, but in different ways.

Also..... no one is going to change anyone's mind....

So Happy Day to all of you!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted

So we should have youth service then.

We should honor vet on vertains day.

Also the bible doesn't say honor your parents if you have or had good ones, to honor them.

I always tie fathers day int my message. It is a great chance to preach on our heavenly father and how He cares for us and how as christian fathers we should care for ours. And if we have no earthly father for what ever reason we do have a heavenly one. All can gleen form the message about fathers not just those who are fathers.

Once again if you read anything I posted you'd see I had no problem with honoring fathers or anyone else, just don't scrap the usual church service for a program. Have something for fathers and then continue on what a regular service

BTW how am I selfish for not sitting through a program but instead going to a small new work on the other side of town and supporting their mission to win souls?

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Once again if you read anything I posted you'd see I had no problem with honoring fathers or anyone else, just don't scrap the usual church service for a program. Have something for fathers and then continue on what a regular service

BTW how am I selfish for not sitting through a program but instead going to a small new work on the other side of town and supporting their mission to win souls?

Ture, Parx, ture.......

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

So no matter what you do or say in church, make sure that no one is ever uncomfortable or alienated? Thats impossible, not to mention just a plain ol dumb way to approach service.

Look, I completely understand what Prax's stance on this is. He thinks service should spend a moment recognizing dads, but then move on and have actual service. This way people like him don't have to sit through a, God forbid, program about dads and don't feel alienated.

Just a reminder, it was you guys that made it all about me. I used myself as an example but I pointed out my main concern was with the visitors that came expecting a church service not a boring parade of church fathers the visitors don't even know, and the new converts who aren't dads or don't have dads but need to be fed and the young girls I personally know whose fathers are in prison or dead beats

I understand it, but there is no rationale for anyone getting as bent out of shape over a non-issue as he has over a silly father's day service.

I never got bent out of shape over it. I pointed out the facts. It was your reactions to the facts that I expressed frustration with. People called me selfish because I chose to go to my friends new work across town instead. People reacted with anger, spite and finger pointing rather than compassion towards these people I spoke of.

That's sad. That's not an indictment on me but you guys. I had a blessed day that Sunday. No I was not bent out of shape over Father's day. Again it was all the acidic finger pointing by YOU and others like YOU that is what I reacted to.

Even if your dad on earth stunk to high heavens, was abusive, drunk etc...you still had a dad. That means on Father's day you shouldn't feel alienated...you had/have a dad even if he was a lousy one.

It's not "on father's day" it's the parade of good fathers ON fathers day at church while these people are forced to just sit there and watch it. I have sympathy and empathy for those people, you? You SAY "I understand" then you turn around here and seemingly undo that understanding

If anything, pay attention on father's day to the fathers in the church and realize what a good dad should be.

For 30 years? What about the girls who will never be good dads? What about the fathers who can't have children? What kind of church do you go to that tries to force people to go to EVERY program like this rather than just leave them alone if they want to not go? That's what I want to know.

Learn from it, so you will be a better father.

What about the people who will never BE a father? How does watching a parade of fathers make others better fathers?

If you are not and never will be a father...I don't know what to tell you. Suck it up and go to church.

I WENT to church! Still got that burr up yer crawl I see. I went to church, I didn't go to a program. Good grief..."suck it up" is your best loving advice? Why? Why do I HAVE to go to a program? What kind of church do you go to that this is how you deal with people who feel alienated? Thats what I want to know. Location and name so I can warn people to stay away lol

WE are supposed to be part of the church, part of the TEAM, and sometimes you do what is best for the whole team even if it really just is an annoyance to you.

Good grief, really? Well most of the team forgot the rest of us. They not only wanted to have their special day but they didn't give a rats behind about the rest of the team. Instead when they heard about how others feel the threw stones.

Sorry but I want no part of your "team". Your team idea did NOT do what was best for the WHOLE team lol

So I'm sorry,

Be honest. You don't give a rats behind about those people do you?

but this whole "Im not a father and I thinkit alienates a few peopel so I won't go to my church on fatehrs day" attitude IS just childish and selfish no matter how you spin it.

See? You don't care, all you care about is yourself. That is selfish. Your "team spirit" is a big fat lie. Your finger pointing is a projection of your own bad attitude towards others that hurt.

I get sick of hearing about stupid things like tithing, but I don't just skip church when I know Pastor will be teachign about it. It's MY church so I need to suck it up and be there because I am part of the team.

I, I, I, MY, I,I...see? It really was all about YOU being selfish