Different Types of Salvation

[renee819]

Different Types of Salvation

All is of grace and all is of faith.
I've had other people on other Forums try to justify themselves by quoting the sins of the Old Testament. Saying, mostly David, was a murderer, and committed fornication.

What they did not realize, that these people, the OT Saints had a harder job to try to keep from sinning than those that are 'born again' because they did not have the Holy Ghost DWELLING in them. Because the Holy Ghost as we know it today “had not yet been given.”

One lady told me that the OT Saints got saved the very same way that people do today. Meaning grace and faith.

Well we know that it takes Faith, as well as Obedience, and then by God's Grace (it's not our grace) we are saved.

Noah believed God and because he was also Obedient, built the Ark,
Abraham, believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness. But not only did he believe, but was obedient, even to sacrificing his son, if it had been necessary. These were saved by Faith and Obedience. Without Obedience they would not have been saved.

Moses believed and brought Israel out of Egypt, because he was obedient. Then delivered to them the Law. After that, the only way to be saved, was to have faith and be obedient to the Law. Which was impossible Because,
One---they were not born again.
Two---The Priests added so many MAN-MADE LAWS, that it was impossible to keep them.

The Law was the only means of salvation until the Cross.

What about those that believed John and Jesus during the 3.5 yrs. of Jesus's ministry? We'll get to that later.
Jesus didn't come to destroy the Law, but to fulfill it.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled

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When was it fulfilled? When Jesus cried with a loud voice, “IT IS FINISHED.” The Law was finished. We are told, when He cried, the Temple Vial was torn from top to bottom. History tells us that the Priests knew the meaning of the Vial being torn at the same time that Jesus cried out and at the same time that He died. And quickly sewed the Vial back together and tried to hush it up and continued on as if nothing had happened.

Any sacrifice after that was a slap in the face to Jesus. The sacrifices And Rituals of the Law were no longer in effect. There is only one mode of Salvation at a time.

Hebrews 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second

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At the same time that Jesus took away the first, The Law, because He fulfilled it, by becoming the Lamb slain, the last sacrifice, He established the Second---the New Covenant.

TO BE CONTINUED

[renee819]

Part 2
That is why Jesus told the thief on the cross, he would meet him in Paradise. Not heaven. He was not 'born again' therefore, I believe he will come up at the GWT.

No one was born again until Pentecost, and here among other reasons is why.

Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth

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Jason wrote,

Renee I don't have a problem with Romans 8:11, nor will you find me in any of my nearly 4,000 posts arguing someone can be saved without the Spirit.

I would argue the Bible does not make a distinction between (genuine) believers and those who are born again, both terms refer to the same people. John 1:12 and Ephesians 1:13-14 equivocate genuine belief as the point of regeneration. Which Paul also teaches earlier in Romans chapter 4. Throughout the ministry of Jesus the emphasis was on belief not Spirit baptism. Jesus certainly spoke of the baptism of the Spirit, but never taught it as something we must "do". The "do" was to BELIEVE then the Spirit was to be a gift for all true believers (cf John 7:37-39).

Jason, I don't see where you see two groups of people. Those that are saved without the evidence of speaking in tongues and those that do have the evidence, Let's look at your scriptures.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Look at the next verse.

John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

How were they born of God?
Jesus only gives us ONE WAY.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God

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Born of the water----Baptized in Jesus name. “even to them that believe on his name: “ If a person believes in Jesus, why wouldn't they be baptized in His name?

Born of the Spirit---the Spirit is the Holy Ghost. To be born of the Spirit, you have to receive the Holy Ghost. No where in the Bible does it say that the Holy Ghost comes in automatically the minute you believe. That is MAN'S DOCTRINE.

ANOTHER SCRIPTURE THAT YOU MENTIONED

Ephesians 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory

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Who is Paul talking to? He is talking to the Ephesians, that had already believed because of Apollos. And then after they heard the Word of Truth in Acts 19, they were sealed with that Holy Spirit of Promise.
Wherever you see the word Promise, (not always) but check to see if it is talking about the Holy Ghost that came at Pentecost.

For instance, these OT Saints,

Hebrews 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

The Promise is the Holy Ghost.

Jason wrote,

Throughout the ministry of Jesus the emphasis was on belief not Spirit baptism. Jesus certainly spoke of the baptism of the Spirit, but never taught it as something we must "do". The "do" was to BELIEVE then the Spirit was to be a gift for all true believers (cf John 7:37-39).

The preaching couldn't be on Spirit baptism because the Holy Ghost was not yet given. And could not be given, until the dispensation of Law was fulfilled, which Jesus fulfilled.
And could not be given until Jesus sent the Holy Ghost down. Which we know that He did at Pentecost.

John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

John and Jesus constantly taught, “Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.” meaning it could not come yet. And when asked 'when it would come' Jesus answer was “that the Kingdom of God is within you” Meaning, the Holy Ghost.

Colossians 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory

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There was no way that Christ could DWELL in a human being until Pentecost.

John 14:16 (And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you

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“he dwelleth with you,: Jesus was speaking of Himself.
“and shall be in you.” The Spirit of Jesus is the Holy Ghost.

In the OT the Holy Ghost moved on the Prophets, when they wrote, preformed miracles, etc, but it could not DWELL IN THEM.
I believe that the most important purpose of Jesus death, burial and resurrection was to send the Holy Ghost down to us. And no where does it say that it comes automatically.

Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear

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It is the Mystery hid from former generations.

TO BE CONTINUED

[KWSS1976]

Renee per your post are you suggesting that there was a Purgatory before Jesus died?

Part 2
That is why Jesus told the thief on the cross, he would meet him in Paradise. Not heaven. He was not 'born again' therefore, I believe he will come up at the GWT.

[renee819]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

Renee per your post are you suggesting that there was a Purgatory before Jesus died?

No way! But there was a Paradise also called Abraham's Bosom.
Evidently that is where the righteous dead went, until they were covered by Jesus blood. Then I understand, that Paradise was moved. (Maybe someone else can enlighten us on this. I'm not sure where to find where Paradise was moved.)

Unless it is,

Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

"he led captivity captive,"

:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

The OT Saints was then covered by the sacrifice of Jesus.

Hebrews 9:7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing

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This is saying, The Holy of Holies is a symbol of the Holy Ghost. And the Holy Ghost was not available while the first Tabernacle, (the Law) was in effect.

:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

" that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, "

I'm sure this is even deeper than I can understand,

Hebrews 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

When Jesus died he cried, IT IS FINISHED, and the Temple Vail was torn from top to bottom, ending the way into the earthly Holy of Holies. But the way was made thru the Vail of His flesh, that we could enter into the Holyiest of all by receiving the Holy Ghost.

[renee819]

Do you that have received the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in Other Tongues, understand what you have really received?

It seems to me that some of you seem to be ashamed of speaking in tongues.

You have entered within the Vial of the Holiest of all, as a Priest. You no longer need to have a Priest to cover your sins. You can go directly into the Throne Room.
You have received LIFE. Spiritual Life. Where before your spirit was dead with Adam sin.
You have received the love of God, spread abroad in your heart by the Holy Ghost.
You have received one or more Spiritual Gifts from God.

And most of all, your Adamic nature has been changed to a 'Divine nature' .

I want to think on this some more tomorrow, right now I'm getting too tired. Maybe someone will add to the list.

[Praxeas]

Didn't David have the Holy Spirit?

[renee819]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Didn't David have the Holy Spirit?

In one scripture, David cried out, ' take not your Holy Spirit from me.'

The Holy Ghost moved on them, was in them, while they were Prophesying, writing, preforming miracles, but it did not dwell in them, as it does today.

That is one of the main reasons that Jesus came to send us the Holy Ghost. And it came in a different form, than had ever been in the world before.

Can you imagine feeling the power of God while the Spirit of God is on you, and then how drained you would feel when it left? No wonder some of them, like Jonah and Elijah, after preaching a powerful message, or in Elijah's case called fire down from heaven, but afterwards they fell into despair.

David was repenting for the sins of adultery and murder in Ps 51, and he prays,

Psalm 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Today when a person receives the Holy Ghost, it is with him forever.. Even if he sins, because “the Gifts and callings of God are without repentance” However, that doesn't mean that he is saved, if he sins and doesn't repent. It means it would have been better not to have known the way to salvation, than to have known and then backslide.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you

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