Come Out Of Her My People

[shag]

n D, I realize the context ....as I recall it was actually on the "butchered scriptures" thread a few years back, because many overlook that the context focus is on coming to agreement.

I was just primarily trying to figure out how u looked at church gatherings, in relation to Gods presence....

So yur fine w the idea that a church can gather anywhere they desire(bldg, barn, cave, bus, coffee shops or whatever...), and they gather in to bible study, sing praises, etc and that place, no matter what it is, can be called Gods House or Gods Tabernacle, even in light of nt scripture, right?


Ftr, As I have stated, I also realize why her opening post went over like a lead balloon...not sure how well the clearing things up is coming along

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So here's a question: how much pagan tradition, and traditions of men, are tolerable in a church claiming to be the church of Jesus Christ? Where is the line to be drawn?

Such as? The issue seems to be what practices or doctrines
came from paganism.

In fact, as demonstrated earlier many critics of Christianity and the bible argue the virgin birth, the son of God and the resurrection all came from paganism

[shag]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Renee, the RCC did not magically appear in 325 AD. It evolved over the course of a few hundred years.

As wrong as the RCC is in my opinion, much of your information and opinions seem to be nothing more than anti Catholic rhetoric.

The building is just one example I addressed. None of your "list" did you ever bother to substantiate. In simple terms, it's not true just because you say so.

Finally, in the course of quoting "Internet websites" one of YOUR quotes that you used as an authority, claims that among other things being PAGAN, was the idea of the virgin birth and the death of the Son.

I even posted your quote for you but you never commented

Renee, have u read this?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by renee819

SOME RESEARCH

http://www.gotquestions.org/origin-Catholic-church.html

I tried to bring some of it up but it won't copy for some reason. It isn't very long.

http://www.gadling.com/2010/09/21/th...ed-to-christi/

In the year 300 AD, Christianity was a minority religion in the Roman Empire, practiced by perhaps ten percent of the population. In good years it was discriminated against; in bad years it was persecuted. By 400 AD, a century later, it had become the official religion practiced by pretty much everyone. Evidence of this remarkable transformation can still be seen in Rome's monuments.

Teachers in Sunday schools like to tell a story about how it happened.

In the year 312 there ruled a Roman Emperor named Maxentius who had taken power illegally. He hated Christians and persecuted them. The proper heir to the throne, Constantine, marched on Rome to save the Empire. Before the two forces met in battle, Constantine saw a vision of a cross in the sky and the words "Conquer under this". Constantine and his army converted to Christianity and painted the cross on their shields. The next day they defeated the pagans and brought Christianity to Rome.

This story is almost entirely wrong, yet it has resonated down the centuries through books, paintings, and films to become part of the Christian legend.

Constantine gave one great boon to the Christians--he legalized their religion. From then on it rapidly gained more followers and began edging out the pagan cults. Soon it was the pagans being persecuted. Rioting monks trashed temples and killed pagan philosophers like Hypatia. In 382 the Altar of Victory was removed from its centuries-old home in the Senate. In 391 paganism was outlawed and temples shut all over the Empire. The old cults hung on for a few generations in rural areas, but Christianity was now the dominant power

Mithras was Christianity's main rival. As a mystery religion with its deepest teachings revealed only to the initiated, we don't know much about its inner workings. What we do know shows many similarities between Mithraism and Christianity, such as the belief that Mithras was born on December 25 to a virgin, and died and was resurrected in order to save mankind

The Pagan, virgin birth and dying son, was started at Babel.

The transition from pagan to Christian isn't always as obvious as in San Clemente. Sometimes you can see it in the art, such as the image above, a 4th century mosaic from Santa Pudenziana. Here Christ sits enthroned in a pose identical to many statues of the pagan god Jupiter. Saints Peter and Paul sit to either side dressed as Roman senators. The early Christians saw nothing wrong with this. They wanted to win the hearts and minds of the people, and a bit of reworked pagan symbolism was a good way to do that.

At times the Christians reused old buildings or parts of old buildings. San Maria Maggiore, a third century basilica, was originally a secular building before being converted into a house of worship

TO BE CONTINUED

see the red text? I did not do that Renee did so Im assuming she agrees

[gthaywood1880]

I'm so happy that this thread was started I was thinking about asking the same questions myself it has been on my mind a very long time. I may get some heat for this but the clergy/laity system was started by the RCC to keep women submissive, this is not the way Christ intended for his people to be. Why do we need a elder, district elder, bishop, suffragan bishop, bishop, presiding bishop etc. I really wish in it's early year's that the P.A.W. wouldn't have adopted an episcopal form of leadership.

[phareztamar]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

see the red text? I did not do that Renee did so Im assuming she agrees

[renee819]

Let's clear this up right now, before it becomes another straw man. Read it again Prax,

Renee wrote
The Pagan, virgin birth and dying son, was started at Babel.

THE PAGAN VIRGIN BIRTH-----

I know that Jesus birth was from the virgin Mary, however, history bears out that the MYTH of a virgin birth was started by Semiramis (probably misspelled) after Nimrod was killed and she had a child. Claiming that her dead husband had come back to life. Deifying the son, and we see in history as well as the Bible, Tummaz, Adonis, and other names as a deified son.

No doubt I should have said, THE PAGAN VIRGIN BIRTH MYTH, but I wrote most of these Posts when I got a few minutes free from visiting with company. I really didn't think that I had to watch every word, but I find there were people ready to jump on the slightest pretext. It reminds me of,

Luke 11:54 Laying wait for him, and seeking to catch something out of his mouth, that they might accuse him

.

Now that my company is gone, I'll be very careful to watch every word that I write., And as my memory isn't as good as it used to be, I might still make a few mistakes. But I believe there are a few people on here with enough love in their heart, to understand what I am saying.

[renee819]

Talk about a straw man, this is one that needs to be set on fire. I made a list. In a list, you usually don't explain why each thing is there, that comes later. Which I did, explain.

My opening statement,

Come Out Of Her My People

Let's face it. We are ruled in the churches by Pagan Christianity.
It was the Catholic Church that brought in the Trinity baptism.
The hierarchy of Clergy and Laity.
The paying of tithes.
Church buildings
And many other things.

And the only way that I see “to come out of her” is to start Home Churches by those that are completely dedicated to God

And now let's see how some received this, they jumped on buildings, as a strawman, most likely not wanting to face the fact, that the Church is dying. And some of the reasons for it, and Jesus say's “Come out of her” Meaning, come out of the things, practices, laws, rules, the RCC placed in the True Church, thru Constantine.

I went thru most of the Posts, and here is what I said about buildings in response to the ridicule. And also many times I was misrepresented.

That is the Truth, exactly. Buildings mean nothing. We could meet in a Restaurant, a warehouse, a home, storefront, anywhere. That shouldn't be the point

And what the RCC has put into place has led to sin. It was sin in the first place, because, …
Constantine, for Political reasons, a Pagan until he died, took churches away from Pagan Priests and gave them, to the Christians. Which sounds great, but at what price? They had to compromise, agree to baptize in the Trinity.

It is a sin to compromise with False Doctrine

Constantine started the first United Religions. Combining Paganism, OT teachings and Christianity

I'm not really saying that we have to abandon buildings. I don't know what to say about that. But if they are set up as little Kingdoms with a King (man) as the ruler. Then I see no other way than to abandon the whole system. But any man in that position is not likely to do so.

However, persecution is on it's way. And just like Constantine, the churches will be asked to join the One World Religion, and if not, they will take the buildings away from you

TheRCC didn't start the Trinity. Almost every Pagan Religion has a Trinity of gods, a Mother (Queen of Heaven) Father and Son. But they authorized it into the Church, where if you baptized any other way, you had your property taken away, whether a church or a home. Many were jailed, and many martyred

I don't believe that I said that the Clergy was sin. "Which sounds great, but at what price? They had to compromise, agree to baptize in the Trinity. It is a sin to compromise with False Doctrine."
And the way that it is being used by the Clergy, is sin. As little Kings over little Kingdoms. Pride in THEIR CHUCH. Ran like a business. Some pastors are Dictators, I've had a few. A stage with performers, with spectators instead of participating. That's just a few.

The above statement needs some fixing. “To stop the martyring of Christians, He gave them buildings, or make it possible for them to have church buildings, tax exemption for the ministry, and many perks. That sounds great, but at what price?

No I did not, state that the RCC started these things.! I said, “ It was the Catholic Church that brought them in,....” You bring in, something that is already in existence. The RCC brought these things in, for political reasons to unite the Paganism, some of the OT, and Christianity, as bribes, some as policy (if they received the bribes) and as law. Not only combining the Religions, but combining Government and Religion

David wrote

...

WHERE, did I ever say, that the RCC invented church buildings????

Ah and you gathered there because the Roman Catholics invented man made buildings?

Church buildings = sin, according to your statement here.

Do you David, see your strawmen conclusions? Some of these statements were made by Prax, and maybe others. I don't even want to remember who said what or hold any grudges. I do appreciate those that understood what I was talking about.
Seems some don't want to see the condition of the church. That way they won't have to change anything.

[houston]

I'm guessing you've been divorced 6 times, and none of those due to any fault of your own.

[houston]

Originally Posted by renee819

Come Out Of Her My People

Let's face it. We are ruled in the churches by Pagan Christianity.
It was the Catholic Church that brought in the Trinity baptism.
The hierarchy of Clergy and Laity.
The paying of tithes.
Church buildings
And many other things.

And the only way that I see “to come out of her” is to start Home Churches by those that are completely dedicated to God.

And this makes my 3rd Sunday to a Pentecostal Church. I talked to the Pastor a few minutes after church, and told him, I didn't believe in man-made laws for the church. But we didn't have time to discuss it.

The main reason that I'm going is that I took 2 little great granddaughters with me, and now they look forward to it. Also a step grandson, age 27, that is trying to quit alcohol.
If I decide I can't go there, can I quit, and disappoint those 3?

It seems they may be pretty strict on the UPC rules, although I believe they are Independent. I told the Pastor that we, he, his wife, and I, need to set down and have a talk. But we haven't yet. Any suggestions?

Yet, if we know better.

This isn't just a suggestion, “Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.” I believe that we should forsake all the things that SHE brought in, and go strictly by the Bible.

Straw man?