The doctrine of subsequence

[kclee4jc]

Originally Posted by Luke

In a nutshell those who would identify with the wesleyan view of sanctification teach that when a person gets saved all of the actual sin (sins they actually commited) are forgiven and removed but they still retain thier carnal/fallen/sinful nature (otherwise known as original sin). After salvation wesleyan holiness holds that there is a second work of grace call entire sanctification. This work is completed in an instant and it accomplishes the removal of the carnal nature and makes a man holy.

The AoG on the other hand hold that sanctification is a progressive growth that is never complete until death or the rapture.

Luke- do you believe that the Baptism in the Holy Ghost is the New Birth experience or a distinct experience from salvation?

[Luke]

I believe that the Baptism in the Holy Ghost like sanctification is a distinct work.

[kclee4jc]

Originally Posted by Luke

I believe that the Baptism in the Holy Ghost like sanctification is a distinct work.

oooooh..... ok got ya
And where does Jesus Name baptism fit into this?

I don't think I have ever met anyone who was Oneness that believe sanctification and Baptism of the Holy Ghost as distinct works. I'm kinda curious bout this..lol

[Luke]

Baptism in water is neither the baptism in the Holy Ghost nor is it entire sanctification. Baptism in water is obedience to God while the other two are both works wrought by God.

[kclee4jc]

Originally Posted by Luke

Baptism in water is neither the baptism in the Holy Ghost nor is it entire sanctification. Baptism in water is obedience to God while the other two are both works wrought by God.

I just did a quick search on your posts and realized that you're trinitarian. Don't know how that slipped by me..lol
Sorry for the confusion.

I will say that I don't necessarily agree with every point of the Wesleyan sanctification doctrine, but Pentecost lost something when the majority accepted Durham's finished work theology. I commend you on your teaching of holiness. Love to converse sometime on this but its time to leave work now! lol

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

I will say that I don't necessarily agree with every point of the Wesleyan sanctification doctrine, but Pentecost lost something when the majority accepted Durham's finished work theology. I commend you on your teaching of holiness. Love to converse sometime on this but its time to leave work now! lol

Actually, that's not true. What happened was those who followed after Durham lost what HE HIMSELF taught about sanctification. His 'finished work' doctrine was a doctrine of instantaneous, entire sanctification available to any believer the moment they had faith to receive, since it was made possible at the cross. Thus, he rejected the NECESSITY of a SECOND, post-conversion work of sanctification, but taught you could have it all the hour you first believed...

He maintained his testimony of entire sanctification, taught it vigorously, and after his untimely death those who claimed to follow his view twisted it into something he would never have recognized as biblical.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Actually, that's not true. What happened was those who followed after Durham lost what HE HIMSELF taught about sanctification. His 'finished work' doctrine was a doctrine of instantaneous, entire sanctification available to any believer the moment they had faith to receive, since it was made possible at the cross. Thus, he rejected the NECESSITY of a SECOND, post-conversion work of sanctification, but taught you could have it all the hour you first believed...

He maintained his testimony of entire sanctification, taught it vigorously, and after his untimely death those who claimed to follow his view twisted it into something he would never have recognized as biblical.

That makes no sense for a couple of reasons:

First inorder to say that it is a complete and instantaneous work it has to be a second work or at the very least a subsequent work to salvation. The Bible calls Christians to holiness not sinners. Also how can a person be sanctified without first being saved? Unless one believed in holy sinners. At the point of salvation we come as separated sinners whereas at the point of sanctification we come as ingrafted family members.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Luke

I believe that the Baptism in the Holy Ghost like sanctification is a distinct work.

Luke, something I have been wanting to ask you for a while is:

1) Where are you from?
2) Who is the lovely lady in your pic?

She looks very familiar to me.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Luke, something I have been wanting to ask you for a while is:

1) Where are you from?
2) Who is the lovely lady in your pic?

She looks very familiar to me.

1. Im from east Texas kinda between Tyler and Dallas.
2. She is my wife but she lived in the Dayton Ohio area until we were married last december 1st and yes she is very lovely.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Luke

1. Im from east Texas kinda between Tyler and Dallas.
2. She is my wife but she lived in the Dayton Ohio area until we were married last december 1st and yes she is very lovely.

She is very beautiful and you are very blessed. I've never lived in Ohio, but have visited WVa extensively and lived in NC. I was thinking that maybe I may have met her once, years ago, in NC.