Bombshell- Considering going back to the UPC

[CC1]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Many Israelites lamented the fact that they weren't in Egypt anymore when freedom proved to be tougher than originally though.

There is a specific class of people who was "set free" from bondage here in America, only to cling to that bondage under their new Masters.

.....And then yes, there are those who NEED to be told what to do in church. The NEED for something to "amen!" too that they know THEY are doing what they have been told but the poor backslidden souls sitting behind them are not.

I don't know that I have ever said "ditto" to a Randy Wayne post but I can this one.

My anecdotal analysis after being in or around old time Pentecost the last 50 years or so is that most old time Pentecostal churches are primarily made up of;

1. Those born into the church and those who marry them.
2. People who come from lives / situation with little or no structure (abandoned by parents, substance abuse issues in the family, etc)

For those who come from secular lives with little or no structure the laundry list of legalism is a refuge for them providing a structure they have not had in their lives and is also a crtuch / measuring stick by which they can measure their position with God.

I also think these folks are more apt to follow a preacher who is preaching extra biblical doctrines and practices as they desperately want someone to believe in and put all of their faith in (a human being in addition to Jesus).

[Abiding Now]

Originally Posted by Barb

I adhere to certain principles by CHOICE. I am NOT in bondage and resent the implication that because of these principles I am in chains to a church or pastor, OR that I am a pig in a pigpen.

And though I was not singled out, or even in your mind when you posted, I do take this personally.

You may have been speaking about an organization, but guess what? People with FEELINGS make up the UPCI...

I don't know why I bother...

Originally Posted by n david

You don't know what or who you're talking about; didn't even get the name right.

I'm not UPC anymore, but it's absurd to compare the UPC to Democrats and pigs.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by n david

You don't know what or who you're talking about; didn't even get the name right.

I'm not UPC anymore, but it's absurd to compare the UPC to Democrats and pigs.

Well.....maybe democrats!

[MawMaw]

Originally Posted by Barb

I adhere to certain principles by CHOICE. I am NOT in bondage and resent the implication that because of these principles I am in chains to a church or pastor, OR that I am a pig in a pigpen.

And though I was not singled out, or even in your mind when you posted, I do take this personally.

You may have been speaking about an organization, but guess what? People with FEELINGS make up the UPCI...

I don't know why I bother...

Agree.

[tv1a]

I blame iPhone spell check for the misspelling.

The point is if you play in the pigpen don't be offended of your called a pig. Brilliant analogy.

Originally Posted by n david

You don't know what or who you're talking about; didn't even get the name right.

I'm not UPC anymore, but it's absurd to compare the UPC to Democrats and pigs.

[n david]

Originally Posted by tv1a

I blame iPhone spell check for the misspelling.

The point is if you play in the pigpen don't be offended of your called a pig. Brilliant analogy.

It wasn't a "brilliant" analogy, it was a dumb and ignorant analogy. Too bad you can't blame your iPhone for posting that.

[Real Realism]

Originally Posted by CC1

I don't know that I have ever said "ditto" to a Randy Wayne post but I can this one.

My anecdotal analysis after being in or around old time Pentecost the last 50 years or so is that most old time Pentecostal churches are primarily made up of;

1. Those born into the church and those who marry them.
2. People who come from lives / situation with little or no structure (abandoned by parents, substance abuse issues in the family, etc)

For those who come from secular lives with little or no structure the laundry list of legalism is a refuge for them providing a structure they have not had in their lives and is also a crtuch / measuring stick by which they can measure their position with God.

I also think these folks are more apt to follow a preacher who is preaching extra biblical doctrines and practices as they desperately want someone to believe in and put all of their faith in (a human being in addition to Jesus).

This is precisely an observation I made a few months back.

When looking around my current and past UPCI churches, I see a pattern of the "newly saved" being generally undereducated and from the lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum. The only exception I see is for a couple terminally ill individuals who had family connections in the church (in one case, the spouse of a terminally ill individual was a "backslid" Pentecostal who'd been raised in the church and left...so falling into your category of spouses of those who grew up in church).

Having grown up in the church myself, I heard the threats that people in the world are selfish. They'll use you and abuse you. People "in the world" can't make real friends - their friends have ulterior motives.

While there's no doubt that Christ opens up a realm of love and selflessness that one could never know without Him - it's total crock that people "in the world" are incapable of exhibiting kindness, loyalty, and true friendship.

But this myth is self-perpetuating because all the "new people" in the church who buy into the legalistic approach come from backgrounds that are unstable, broken, and without a support system of loving friends and family.

Not that socioeconomic status means a thing in the body of Christ - but shouldn't we be questioning why the college educated, white collar populations seem to be underrepresented among our "new converts"? Is there a reason why those who are more successful in their education and professions don't seem to buy into the UPCI dogma? (And I'm not saying that blue collar persons can't be successful, but often times "moving up" in blue collar professions means moving into management, which I would say turns them white collar.)

[tv1a]

Don't expect to soar with eagles when you hang with chickens.

Originally Posted by Barb

I adhere to certain principles by CHOICE. I am NOT in bondage and resent the implication that because of these principles I am in chains to a church or pastor, OR that I am a pig in a pigpen.

And though I was not singled out, or even in your mind when you posted, I do take this personally.

You may have been speaking about an organization, but guess what? People with FEELINGS make up the UPCI...

I don't know why I bother...

[tv1a]

It was a perfect analogy. The fact it hits close to home is an added benefit. Care to dispute the analogy with facts or whine about why the organization is not taken seriously.

Originally Posted by n david

It wasn't a "brilliant" analogy, it was a dumb and ignorant analogy. Too bad you can't blame your iPhone for posting that.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by tv1a

Don't expect to soar with eagles when you hang with chickens.

I do NOT hang with chickens!

Perhaps you are playing me and are simply getting the responses you want, but I will play along and say this...

I have been around forums since the FCF days and know where a lot of folks stand on certain issues...Renda, Sherri, CC1 to name a few.

We do not see eye to eye on these points, and probably never will, but they NEVER resort to the posting that you have. I respect them enough to not put them in hell for their views (as I that were my right), and likewise, they don't call me names or tell me I'm in bondage for mine.

It's called respect!

You don't know me from Adam's house cat and probably don't care to, and that is fine. But a little respect goes a way.

As I posted yesterday...why do I bother?