(DKB) Muslims worship God of the Bible

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Esaias

No poorer than just about any other Christian sect's view of those who leave the group.

I don't think the Methodist's view of one who leaves their sect for the Baptist sect has the same view toward the person as the one who leaves an 'apostolic' pentecostal church for the Baptist sect.

In other words, it's not a Christian or salvation issue with the Methodist but it is for the 'apostolic' pentecostal. So, that's a huge difference.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by houston

pg 129 "Practical Holiness: A Second Look"


"Islam is a monotheistic religion founded by Mohammed in 7th century Arabia. Moslems worship the God of the Bible, but believe that Mohammed's book, the Koran, is God's Word for today. They are forbidden to drink alcoholic beverages, eat blood, or gamble.
Conservative Moslem women wear very modest clothing and refuse to wear masculine clothing. Saudi Arabia, controlled by a strict Moslem sect, placed a ban upon television because of its immoral influences, while Iran banned rock music for the same reason."

In a debate, I heard DKB call a Church of Christ minister a brother....the Church of Christ minister wouldn't return the favor though.

Does DKB really believe that those who openly oppose tongues and baptism in Jesus name are really his brothers?

[MarcBee]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Not really, because then 1000 years later you'd have people claiming he never showed up for the book signing, and that those who believed he did are just relying on dubious evidence of people with an agenda.

No, not really, because 1000 years from now humans will enjoy much better, more reliable ways to determine fraud vs. authenticity of past documentation, (ie, experts even today can smoke out doctored photographs vs. non-doctored photographs.) And even today, we can reasonably determine at least the most obvious cases of unreliable and fraudulent literature from the past, to a degree that past generations often could not.

Nevertheless, please describe when your god ever did supposedly show up for a book signing. Of course, you didn't exactly claim a god ever did show up, but rather claim that, "we would criticize it," an argument that doesn't work for educated people. Yes, agreed, if criticism is warranted by the extant evidence, then good people will criticize. Nothing new there.

So, let's forget a Barnes and Noble book signing of the New Testament. Why then can't your god show up physically himself to do ANYTHING good? There's no harm in showing who you really are to everyone every 75 years--and that practice would come to be regarded by all humans as the very basis for divine honesty and divine truth. So sad the god can't show himself, unless you wish to count those ancient tattered documents, or else count as valid the imagination of believers in those same tattered, doctored documents.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by seekerman

I don't think the Methodist's view of one who leaves their sect for the Baptist sect has the same view toward the person as the one who leaves an 'apostolic' pentecostal church for the Baptist sect.

In other words, it's not a Christian or salvation issue with the Methodist but it is for the 'apostolic' pentecostal. So, that's a huge difference.

That's why I didn't say 'all'.

Many Methodists wouldn't much care if a person went from being a Methodist to being a Buddhist. They'd think it weird, but hardly an 'oh, we must pray for them' event.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Esaias

That's why I didn't say 'all'.

Many Methodists wouldn't much care if a person went from being a Methodist to being a Buddhist. They'd think it weird, but hardly an 'oh, we must pray for them' event.

Generally speaking, the more cult-like a sect is, the more it matters to those in the sect concerning those that leave.

[Praxeas]

Act 17:23 For as I went around and observed closely your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: 'To an unknown god.' Therefore what you worship without knowing it, this I proclaim to you.
Act 17:24 The God who made the world and everything in it, who is Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by human hands,

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by MarcBee

Of course, you didn't exactly claim a god ever did show up, but rather claim that, "we would criticize it," an argument that doesn't work for educated people. Yes, agreed, if criticism is warranted by the extant evidence, then good people will criticize.

I do not claim people would just 'criticise it', but that people would later claim 'there is no evidence' even if God did show up for a book signing.

Why then can't your god show up physically himself to do ANYTHING good?

Proof in point - God HAS showed up 'physically', and later on people (such as yourself) claim it never happened. Incidentally, what in the world makes you think God would ever choose to condescend to meet YOUR expectations? I mean, what possible claim do you have on God, whereby God must logically and reasonably comply with YOUR expectations, whatever they may be?

Seems to me it is our responsibility to comply with God's expectations, not the other way around. Consider - *IF* there was a Supreme Deity, then it would make perfect sense that He does not 'owe' each of us to 'prove himself' to OUR SATISFACTION, considering there are quite a few intractable individuals who would not believe under any circumstances short of violating their free will. Therefore it follows that God is not obligated to meet any particular person's 'test' or requirements. And if not anybody's, then nobody's. And therefore God is not obligated to 'prove himself' to you, me, or anyone else.

'Thou shalt not tempt the LORD thy God'.

You don't believe. Good for you. You may rest in your self-supposed mental superiority, and ride it as far as it will carry you.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Act 17:23 For as I went around and observed closely your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: 'To an unknown god.' Therefore what you worship without knowing it, this I proclaim to you.
Act 17:24 The God who made the world and everything in it, who is Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by human hands,

They had an altar to 'the unknown God', meaning 'any God we have left out'. Paul then proclaims to them the God whom they had left out - YHVH, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

He did not mean to affirm they actually did worship the true God, albeit in an ignorant manner, as some affirm of Islam or Judaism. He was instead using their superstitious ignorant altar as a jumping point for preaching the gospel.

Not that any of this matters, really.

He who has not the Son has not the Father, he who has the Son has the Father.

In other words, there is no knowledge of God apart from that found in Christ. The Jews claimed to have known God, and worshipped God, but Jesus said they have not known him, otherwise they would do his works, and acknowledge the One whom God sent.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Esaias

They had an altar to 'the unknown God', meaning 'any God we have left out'. Paul then proclaims to them the God whom they had left out - YHVH, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

He did not mean to affirm they actually did worship the true God, albeit in an ignorant manner, as some affirm of Islam or Judaism. He was instead using their superstitious ignorant altar as a jumping point for preaching the gospel.

Not that any of this matters, really.

He who has not the Son has not the Father, he who has the Son has the Father.

In other words, there is no knowledge of God apart from that found in Christ. The Jews claimed to have known God, and worshipped God, but Jesus said they have not known him, otherwise they would do his works, and acknowledge the One whom God sent.

Actually he did affirm that. They worshiped God in ignorance. That does not mean they knew God nor were correct in their views of God

[Abiding Now]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Act 17:23 For as I went around and observed closely your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: 'To an unknown god.' Therefore what you worship without knowing it, this I proclaim to you.
Act 17:24 The God who made the world and everything in it, who is Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by human hands,

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Actually he did affirm that. They worshiped God in ignorance. That does not mean they knew God nor were correct in their views of God