An Apology

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by phareztamar

I remember as a young man, my son was very ill, and I decided I was gonna step out on faith, and trust God to heal him. Took him to the altar, had him prayed for, and waited.... He was getting worse. Finally, my pastor came by, and offered these very wise words:

Brother, if you want to test your faith in God's healing, perhaps you should wait until you are sick...in the mean time, take your son to the doctor.

My brother, that sounds like a very wise pastor.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by phareztamar

I remember as a young man, my son was very ill, and I decided I was gonna step out on faith, and trust God to heal him. Took him to the altar, had him prayed for, and waited.... He was getting worse. Finally, my pastor came by, and offered these very wise words:

Brother, if you want to test your faith in God's healing, perhaps you should wait until you are sick...in the mean time, take your son to the doctor.

Why would you trust God for you son's healing and not take him to the doctor? What teaching did you head that convinced you to allow your son to suffer instead of taking him to the doctor?

[houston]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Why would you trust God for you son's healing and not take him to the doctor? What teaching did you head that convinced you to allow your son to suffer instead of taking him to the doctor?

well, didn't Jesus say that his followers would heal people?

[phareztamar]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Why would you trust God for you son's healing and not take him to the doctor? What teaching did you head that convinced you to allow your son to suffer instead of taking him to the doctor?

As I said, I was a young man. Back then, taking my son to the doctor was tantamount to not trusting that God was going to miraculously heal him. Do you really not get that?

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by houston

well, didn't Jesus say that his followers would heal people?

Yes, but when a child doesn't get his healing, why allow him to suffer....and sometimes die?

What theology would teach such a thing?

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by phareztamar

As I said, I was a young man. Back then, taking my son to the doctor was tantamount to not trusting that God was going to miraculously heal him. Do you really not get that?

I'm simply asking, why would you...or anyone for that matter....think it's pleasing to God to allow one's child to suffer? What kind of preaching were you sitting under that would convince you of such a thing?

Did the preacher preach that anyone who sought medical help for sickness was sinning? That God wasn't pleased with that? Were those folks 'apostolic'?

[phareztamar]

Originally Posted by seekerman

I'm simply asking, why would you...or anyone for that matter....think it's pleasing to God to allow one's child to suffer? What kind of preaching were you sitting under that would convince you of such a thing?

Did the preacher preach that anyone who sought medical help for sickness was sinning? That God wasn't pleased with that? Were those folks 'apostolic'?

For the third time, I was a young man. Why did I think that taking my son to a doctor was the equivalent of not trusting God? Probably because I had just taken him to the altar, had the elders pray for his healing, and was left now to trust that God would heal him. To me, back then, taking him to the doctor was like telling God, that I didn't believe He was healing my son...or not healing him fast enough. Whom taught me this? Nobody...I was brand new in the faith.

The fact that my pastor intervened, and told me to take my son to a doctor, should answer your ridiculous question: "Did the preacher preach that anyone who sought medical help for sickness was sinning".

And yes, those folks were apostolic...and he wasn't just a preacher, but a pastor...my pastor.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by seekerman

I'm simply asking, why would you...or anyone for that matter....think it's pleasing to God to allow one's child to suffer? What kind of preaching were you sitting under that would convince you of such a thing?

Did the preacher preach that anyone who sought medical help for sickness was sinning? That God wasn't pleased with that? Were those folks 'apostolic'?

Seekerman, you are confusing respecting one's religious convictions--even when they are disagreeable or even repugnant--with agreeing with them or endorsing them.

The reason it is difficult to hate someone or treat them badly because of religious beliefs is because their belief is intertwined with sincere love for God. People who are willing to put their own lives or their children's lives in danger in order to express their faith are people who believe what they believe to the core. It may be misguided, but it can't be ripped out of them.

No, I do NOT believe that God is pleased with a person allowing their child to suffer, but at the same time, I understand their sincere ignorance. Not in the sense that I am commiserating, but from the angle of knowing that people do bad and stupid things for noble reasons. My own father nearly let me die out of the same misguided notion when I was 2. My grandfather finally overrode him and took me to the hospital. Ironically, two days later, our pastor came in and prayed for me and I was completely healed and released from the hospital that same afternoon. My Dad never spoke against doctors again--and I can assure you that he loved me very much. He did, however, feel that he was put in the position of having to choose between faith in God and his child, and his convictions made him make a choice that I feel was sincerely ignorant. He wasn't bad or evil; he was just a fallible human being.

What is the point of haranguing people for things they feel so deeply in their heart, they can never in good conscience make a different choice? Their ignorance can make you sad, or even angry, but I think it's still easy to see where it comes from.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Seekerman, you are confusing respecting one's religious convictions--even when they are disagreeable or even repugnant--with agreeing with them or endorsing them.

The reason it is difficult to hate someone or treat them badly because of religious beliefs is because their belief is intertwined with sincere love for God. People who are willing to put their own lives or their children's lives in danger in order to express their faith are people who believe what they believe to the core. It may be misguided, but it can't be ripped out of them.

No, I do NOT believe that God is pleased with a person allowing their child to suffer, but at the same time, I understand their sincere ignorance. Not in the sense that I am commiserating, but from the angle of knowing that people do bad and stupid things for noble reasons. My own father nearly let me die out of the same misguided notion when I was 2. My grandfather finally overrode him and took me to the hospital. Ironically, two days later, our pastor came in and prayed for me and I was completely healed and released from the hospital that same afternoon. My Dad never spoke against doctors again--and I can assure you that he loved me very much. He did, however, feel that he was put in the position of having to choose between faith in God and his child, and his convictions made him make a choice that I feel was sincerely ignorant. He wasn't bad or evil; he was just a fallible human being.

What is the point of haranguing people for things they feel so deeply in their heart, they can never in good conscience make a different choice? Their ignorance can make you sad, or even angry, but I think it's still easy to see where it comes from.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by phareztamar

For the third time, I was a young man. Why did I think that taking my son to a doctor was the equivalent of not trusting God? Probably because I had just taken him to the altar, had the elders pray for his healing, and was left now to trust that God would heal him. To me, back then, taking him to the doctor was like telling God, that I didn't believe He was healing my son...or not healing him fast enough. Whom taught me this? Nobody...I was brand new in the faith.

The fact that my pastor intervened, and told me to take my son to a doctor, should answer your ridiculous question: "Did the preacher preach that anyone who sought medical help for sickness was sinning".

And yes, those folks were apostolic...and he wasn't just a preacher, but a pastor...my pastor.

The reason I'm asking is that you don't see this kind of behavior in most Christian sects. There is something in the message, in the 'apostolic' theology which lends itself to people doing this. I was just curious why you came to the conclusion that God would be pleased with allowing your child to suffer if your pastor didn't teach that particular docrine.

I was soundly criticized by some on here for bringing up the practice of some 'apostolics' to do this very thing, even to the point of the death of their child. What is being preached that would convince a person that such behavior is pleasing to God? Something is in that culture, in that theology, which would lend itself to practicing theology which had tragic consequences.

This is what epley didn't want to discuss, to answer.