An Apology

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by seekerman

I know people who call themselves 'apostolic' who are very cult-like and do practice this.

So it has nothing to do with being Apostolic or calling one's self Apostolic

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

So it has nothing to do with being Apostolic or calling one's self Apostolic

Sure it does. When you find someone in oneness pentecostalism who practices withholding medical care from their children, you'll most likely find them identifying themselves as 'apostolic'.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Sure it does. When you find someone in oneness pentecostalism who practices withholding medical care from their children, you'll most likely find them identifying themselves as 'apostolic'.

Like I said. Not everyone that calls themselves "Apostolic", believe, practice or teach that.

Therefore it is NOT a property of being Apostolic. You can also not call yourself Apostolic and still believe such a practice.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Like I said. Not everyone that calls themselves "Apostolic", believe, practice or teach that.

Therefore it is NOT a property of being Apostolic. You can also not call yourself Apostolic and still believe such a practice.

I haven't said that everyone that calls themselves 'apostolic' believes, practices or teaches that. You're not reading my post. One more time, here is is again.

Within oneness pentecostalism, those who believe, practice and teach that will usually label themselves as 'apostolic'. While you may, or may not, consider them as 'apostolic', they consider themselves 'apostolic'.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by seekerman

I haven't said that everyone that calls themselves 'apostolic' believes, practices or teaches that..

That is my point! Therefore it is NOT a property of being Apostolic or being called Apostolic. Everytime I say that you say YES it is. Then I remind you not everyone that is Apostolic believes it and then you repeat you are not saying all Apostolics believe it.

It's not a practice that is specific to being Apostolic otherwise ALL Apostolics would do it and no non-Apostolics would do it.

In other words it has NOTHING to do with being Apostolic.

Also MOST Oneness call themselves Apostolic, just as most Catholics do.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by seekerman

I agree that it's not a true Apostolic message and the behavior isn't limited to 'apostolics'. There are various cults who do such things, not just the 'apostolic' sects which are cults.

Do you think those pastors who allow such behavior in their churches are led of God. That's the ultimate question epley was avoiding.

No one is espousing the doctrine on this forum, so why are you making such an issue of it???

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

That is my point! Therefore it is NOT a property of being Apostolic or being called Apostolic. Everytime I say that you say YES it is. Then I remind you not everyone that is Apostolic believes it and then you repeat you are not saying all Apostolics believe it.

It's not a practice that is specific to being Apostolic otherwise ALL Apostolics would do it and no non-Apostolics would do it.

In other words it has NOTHING to do with being Apostolic.

Also MOST Oneness call themselves Apostolic, just as most Catholics do.

Yes, it IS a property of some of those who self-label themselves as 'apostolics'. You're attempting to make it an all or nothing thing and that's not what's being suggested at all. My point is that when you find those in oneness pentecostalism who practice allowing their children to suffer, and sometimes die, for lack of medical care, those people usually self-label themselves 'apostolic'. You personally may not believe such practices are 'apostolic' practices but if you ask those who do such things if they're 'apostolic', their answer would probably be in the affirmative. And, once again, the more conservative the self-labeled 'apostolic', the more likely you would find the practice of such things.

[Amanah]

seekerman, were you trained in law enforcement interrogation tactics?

[MawMaw]

Originally Posted by Amanah

seekerman, were you trained in law enforcement interrogation tactics?

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by crakjak

No one is espousing the doctrine on this forum, so why are you making such an issue of it???

I'm simply asking why those who preach or teach such a twisted theology are rarely condemned in the oneness pentecostal sect. When I first spoke of the practice of those who allow their children to suffer, and sometimes die, for lack of medical attention in the 'apostolic' movement, I was met will denial. The claim that it never happens. That response wasn't truthful, it does happen.

I asked epley about it quite a while ago and of course I got everything, including the usual 'you're going to hell' reaction from him (and others also) but no discussion concerning those with whom he fellowships in his somewhat conservative circle. He's quick to condemn others, but he won't condemn those with whom he fellowships who preach and practice such things. If in fact they do.....we don't know because he wasn't open and honest enough to simply answer.

Now we're seeing that yes, that is practiced in the 'apostolic' movement. Some will say that it's a tiny part, maybe randomly here and there, very uncommon. That's all relative and not the point at all. The point is, it IS happening. It DOES happen. The question, the discussion, should be if that teaching is acceptable, tolerable, in the 'apostolic' sect. Since it DOES happen (and the frequency isn't the issue), then what should be the response when it's taught.

The 'apostolics' on the forum have absolutely no problem openly disagreeing with those who baptize in Father, Son, Holy Ghost, or don't speak in tongues or with their opposition to those who don't keep standards, ect, ect. But to openly speak against, or in favor, of those who practice allowing their children to suffer, and sometimes die, for lack of medical attention isn't to be done. Again, it IS part of the 'apostolic' movement and maybe a very small part, but it's about the PRACTICE not the number of those who do such things and the non-response toward those teaching such things.

Epley is gone. He's outta here. But it's a shame that he is openly against two boys a'kissin' and trinitarians and knowing who is going to hell but wouldn't actually fact the issue of those who allow their children to suffer, and sometimes die. He was bold for the truth...until the truth hit him square in the face. Then he wouldn't discuss truth anymore. That seems to be somewhat common here on the forum in several areas.

Now, what is your opinion of those who preach and teach such doctrines that cause parents to withhold medical attention from their children in order to please God? Remember, this isn't about me or the number who do that, the issue is about that practice. If one were to see that, should that preacher/teacher be corrected or should he continue with a theology which abuses children?