An Apology

[MissBrattified]

My husband's grandfather died after his preacher brother told him he was healed and he could stop taking his insulin. They were Baptist, and the uncle was non-denominational.

[ILG]

This thread has gone on for a loooonnngg time.

[n david]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Folks keep making these allegations and are then closed mouth when I ask for proof.

More irony. Several have asked you to prove your claims of graves and ministers and you've closed your mouth and avoided giving any proof.

Originally Posted by seekerman

Now, where have I tried to libel a good man? Give an example.

Rev. Epley. I don't even agree with him on things, but your posts to him and about him are despicable. You have libelled him with your accusations against him.

Wish I could say that should shut you up, but I know better.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by n david

More irony. Several have asked you to prove your claims of graves and ministers and you've closed your mouth and avoided giving any proof.

Haven't your read the stories from others on here? It's not just me revealing that some 'apostolics' follow doctrines which result in the suffering of children, and sometimes death.

Rev. Epley. I don't even agree with him on things, but your posts to him and about him are despicable. You have libelled him with your accusations against him.

Wish I could say that should shut you up, but I know better.

Quote me. Give an example where I've libeled epley.

You're not. You can't.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by seekerman

I'm simply asking why those who preach or teach such a twisted theology are rarely condemned in the oneness pentecostal sect. When I first spoke of the practice of those who allow their children to suffer, and sometimes die, for lack of medical attention in the 'apostolic' movement, I was met will denial. The claim that it never happens. That response wasn't truthful, it does happen.

I asked epley about it quite a while ago and of course I got everything, including the usual 'you're going to hell' reaction from him (and others also) but no discussion concerning those with whom he fellowships in his somewhat conservative circle. He's quick to condemn others, but he won't condemn those with whom he fellowships who preach and practice such things. If in fact they do.....we don't know because he wasn't open and honest enough to simply answer.

Now we're seeing that yes, that is practiced in the 'apostolic' movement. Some will say that it's a tiny part, maybe randomly here and there, very uncommon. That's all relative and not the point at all. The point is, it IS happening. It DOES happen. The question, the discussion, should be if that teaching is acceptable, tolerable, in the 'apostolic' sect. Since it DOES happen (and the frequency isn't the issue), then what should be the response when it's taught.

The 'apostolics' on the forum have absolutely no problem openly disagreeing with those who baptize in Father, Son, Holy Ghost, or don't speak in tongues or with their opposition to those who don't keep standards, ect, ect. But to openly speak against, or in favor, of those who practice allowing their children to suffer, and sometimes die, for lack of medical attention isn't to be done. Again, it IS part of the 'apostolic' movement and maybe a very small part, but it's about the PRACTICE not the number of those who do such things and the non-response toward those teaching such things.

Epley is gone. He's outta here. But it's a shame that he is openly against two boys a'kissin' and trinitarians and knowing who is going to hell but wouldn't actually fact the issue of those who allow their children to suffer, and sometimes die. He was bold for the truth...until the truth hit him square in the face. Then he wouldn't discuss truth anymore. That seems to be somewhat common here on the forum in several areas.

Now, what is your opinion of those who preach and teach such doctrines that cause parents to withhold medical attention from their children in order to please God? Remember, this isn't about me or the number who do that, the issue is about that practice. If one were to see that, should that preacher/teacher be corrected or should he continue with a theology which abuses children?

Yes, it has happened, and yes, it has happened in "Apostolic" circles, and even in the UPC.

What is my opinion? I believe most of these folks are honest in their belief of "trusting God", instead of "...the arm of flesh..." However, they are misguided, and the practice is very wrong. It is wrong to not intelligently use medical assistance when human life is in stress and danger. It is also wrong to abuse, and overuse drugs and painkillers, because there are side effects of all drugs, and horrible bodily damage inflicted by many drugs. The drug industry is out of control and the greed, and corruption in federal approval is criminal.

If one actually sees this in process, especially where children are in great danger, proper authority should be informed. Not only is it wrong, it is against the law. These folks need to learn how to trust God, along with availing themselves of the medical help He has provided in the civilized world.

Hope that satisfies the hornet that is in your hat, and you can now sleep and let it rest. Again, NO ONE on this forum is advocating this doctrine.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by seekerman

This is about the hypocrisy and denial and evasion of not only epley, but of others on the forum.



LOL. You're speaking about "not crushing" on this forum? Where those ultracons attempt to 'crush' anyone do dare disagree with them? 'All trinitarians are going to hell' is a statement of tolerance?

Watch those who 'crush' here on the forum. Aren't they they ultracons?



I see you've never dealt with those in those kinds of 'apostolic' churches so you don't know the cult-like environment and control those preachers have over the people. In some, no major decision is made, such as buying a car, buying a house, ect, without first consulting the pastor. If the pastor isn't consulted, everyone looks at that member as rebellious, as not submitting to the authority of the pastor.

You don't know what you're talking about if you've never dealt with those religious spirits that are so prevalent in those churches. They are strong and deep and perverted.



Fortunately, in my 40 years in oneness pentecostalism, I never attended such a church either. But I knew about them and still know about them.



Yes, I thank you for sharing that, not for condemnation but as an example of how God can deliver from such practices.

You assume so much, you have no clue the legalism and even cultism that many members of this forum has been exposed to, humanity has struggled thru all kinds of ignorance and delusion. Thank God, the light is shining thru so much of these things. You're not the Messiah, and you will not eradicate all ignorance, humanity is in this messed world, but it
is God's world and He has a purpose in bringing us all thru it. God could clean it all up in a moment, without another pain in us, but what would we miss by not working with Him thru it all??? Just some thoughts that your crusade raises in me.

[renee819]

Originally Posted by crakjak

You assume so much, you have no clue the legalism and even cultism that many members of this forum has been exposed to, humanity has struggled thru all kinds of ignorance and delusion. Thank God, the light is shining thru so much of these things. You're not the Messiah, and you will not eradicate all ignorance, humanity is in this messed world, but it
is God's world and He has a purpose in bringing us all thru it. God could clean it all up in a moment, without another pain in us, but what would we miss by not working with Him thru it all??? Just some thoughts that your crusade raises in me.

Thank God, the light is shining. A wise person will learn from other's mistakes, or listening to wise counsel. However, there are many things that we do not know, unless we experience it. And pain is a great teacher.

[MarieA27]

This is really a sad thread...

[Charnock]

Since my earlier posts were deleted I will attempt to leave names out of this post.

In general, ultraconservatives are uneducated, vindictive, controlling and hypocritical.

I'm sure there are exceptions but my 6 history of sparring with them on this site and a lifetime of dealing with them in person have led me to that conclusion.

Every time an ultracon preacher is exposed as a cheat, liar, adulterer, wife swapper or child abuser there are immediate calls to treat the situation as an isolated incident. Meanwhile, I've watched the body count rise. These behaviors are TYPICAL of ultraconservative preachers and they've played out among some posters from this board over the years.

I believe in grace, mercy and love so long as those gifts don't enable predators to continue their work.

[Charnock]

Is there anything more abusive than telling a person they are going to Hell? Instilling fear day after day, sermon after sermon?